Amy: Welcome to Stories from Site, the renovation podcast that digs a little deeper. I’m Amy Dohnalek and together with my co-host Jane Middlehurst we peek behind the curtains of those insta-worthy interiors to bring you the real processes people went through to make their dream homes a reality.

After 10 years as architects renovating homes, Jane and I set up HomeNotes to teach people how to take on their own renovation journeys. We’ve met so many inspiring people on the way, and now we want to share their incredible stories.

This week we talked with Temi and Eugene about their process of creating the perfect home to suit their family life, both now and in the future.

In this episode packed with top tips. They share their method of meticulous research and planning and how great communication both between themselves and with their contractor ensured their vision came to fruition.

Jane: You’ve done three renovations. Is that right? You’re on your third?

Temi: Technically yes.

Euge: I’d say this, this is probably the biggest one that we’ve done. A lot of the others have been fairly cosmetic. So the first one was just very, very cosmetic. Second one was like new kitchen and turning something from, I would not live in there or touch it to. Okay. This is quite nice.

And this one is turning a house into a home really.

Amy: Do you want to describe what you’ve done to the house?

Euge: I mean, the, the quick and dirty explanation is we ripped out the back and we stuck something on the side, and then we stuck something bigger onto the back. But the true explanation is, we bought a semi-detached Victorian property in Surrey. And it wasstructurally it was sound, but and inside the rooms were relatively like medium to large size, but it just, the layout wasn’t how we wanted it, especially for the kitchen.

Temi: So we did a was it two meters by three in the, in the back? The kitchen extension?

Euge: So we went back by three and a half meters and then out to the side and wrapping round to create also a new front entrance as well. Yeah, so it’s, it’s quite a big extension and the length of it is 13 meters. So spanning from the back of the house all the way to the new front entrance.

Cuz it’s a a, a traditional Victorian home, it was a side entrance and one of my pet peeves was when I’d step out into the house, I couldn’t see the road. So I wanted it to face forward. So that was one of the additional sort of criteria that we’d set for ourself for, for the new layout that we wanted to create.

Amy: That sounds not for the fainthearted. Did you feel nervous about taking on such a big project or did it kind of grow organically?

Euge: It was probably about four years in the making or so, three to four years in the making. It wasn’t until a lot later on down the line, that we then realized, okay, we could actually make it a completely forward facing front entrance and also have the side extension providing us with a utility room and then also a bigger wow factor kitchen. The reason why it wasn’t like a shock to the system doing all of this work was because of the constant discussions and every day of me pulling out a, a measuring tape and you measuring things all the time I’m not even exaggerating. Every single day I was measuring something and Temi would come downstairs and she’d be like, what are you measuring now?

Temi: When we first started, I, we only had one baby, so it was our daughter. I would just walk in with Israel, we. Just ignore as if he wasn’t even Daddy’s measuring something again.

again

Euge: So it was the constant planning and conversations that then made it so when we started the work, we knew exactly what we wanted.

Temi: So you’re obviously creating this really clear vision in your head, like practically how you want the spaces to work. Are you sketching this out on paper? Are you making the designs yourself and how’s that process work? Yeah, so there was a lot of drawing out on paper drawing out on the computer using some free apps to design like the, the layout of the room. Then, sometimes just getting some masking tape on the floor in the kitchen. And because we were extending into the garden where there was already pavement, we would just like draw chalk outlines of where things would go up to.

So just to help us really visualize what the space that we were going to get once the walls were constructed and use sort of cardboard boxes to plan out, okay, if this is here and the door opens this way, how much space would we have so we know what we could fit in storage-wise. So yeah, it was constant measuring, constant visualization. Going to

Jane: Physically mapping out the space.

Temi: Yeah, for me I need to visually see it even if it is just lines on the floor. So that really helped me understand what we were going to actually get once the extension was constructed.

So do you both feel like you are adding to the creative processhow did the different roles of the project pan out between you?

Euge: I think we’re both creative. When it, when it comes to mine I don’t stop going on about like a specific thing, which can get a bit frustrating to the other party. But it’s because of how my mind will work. It’s continuously going over it. So the layout of the kitchen itself changed loads of times. And it was because I was trying to picture all the different scenarios that we could have. So like things like Christmas day when you, you want an extended table, things like the kids playing in the kitchen. And just other general things. We had the, the size of the room mapped out, but then where we were gonna put the island sink and all that, like long cabinets and all of that sort of stuff.

That kept on changing, and that’s part of why I was always forever measuring.

Basically I have to produce a presentation to Temi to, to say why I believe something should be the way it’s, whereas Temi can just say, yep, I, I think it’s that way, and I’ll, I’ll be like, yeah, you’re right, because normally she is.

Temi: I am

Euge: With me, because I’ll chop and change, I’ll need to present my idea as to why I believe it’s the case which works for us. And lo and behold, that final presentation for the kitchen layout was actually the correct one.

Amy: I love that. So you basically need to see every single option before you know which one is the right one.

Temi: Yeah,

Euge: yeah, yeah. We’ve got about 20 different layouts for how the kitchen was going to be, and I, I honestly do think because we went through that process, there isn’t any regrets that we have layout wise of how we have the kitchen.

Amy: I think it’s a really interesting point because I think people maybe don’t fully realize how much time goes into discussing all the stuff about a renovation. Like how did you manage that, Temi did you have to just say no, talking about the renovation after, after 9:00 PM at night or something?

How did you survive?

Temi: Just generally, Eugene knows I have my limits for any topic that is to do with adulting. So he’ll start talking and I’m like, bub, I love you. I’m not, I’m not listening. I’m, I’m not engaged. I don’t want to, I don’t want to adult, I just want to Netflix this evening. So it, because I think it’s also because of the type of job that I have.

It gets to a point in day, I, I don’t want to have to have serious conversations so he, he knows that he needs to kind of time it right for me to actually take it in. But I think it’s because we, we bought the house knowing that yes, we want to extend, we saw that potential.

But we knew that, well, we’re not gonna be doing that within the next two years anyway, so we got time to save up.

So it allowed that conversation to stretch that, that long, knowing that we can keep talking. We can keep changing our minds.

Amy: Yeah, absolutely. And get an idea of how you’re gonna use it as a family. You know, it’s always a bit unexpected actually. Like the nice spot for where the sun comes in, or, you know, like sometimes it’s where you don’t, you haven’t thought.

Temi: And that’s key for like everything that we’ve renovated in the house so far, it’s been a mashup of, okay, yes, we want it to be pretty, but we want it to be functional. But functional to us is not necessarily functional to maybe the next family that might live in this house, but we are obvious concerned about how our family living it. So as an example, we had a downstairs toilet already when we bought the, the property. And we just thought bath time would be so much easier if after we have had dinner, we just shepherd them into a bathroom downstairs instead of doing the fight to get them upstairs.

But that suited our, our family. Somebody else probably wouldn’t bother if there was already a toilet down there.

Euge: And it’s also future-proofing as well in case, you know, we do have a, an elderly family member come and live with us in the future. Then everything is all on one floor because we have quite a big living room, which used to have a dining room on there, which is now Temi’s office. That can always be closed off.

So then you can make. One of the rooms is a bedroom, but then they’d also have easy access to a downstairs bathroom and toilet as well, so that everything would just be on one floor. So it’s kind of in all those discussions, it’s like, so what about in 20 years time?

So we, we then try and embed all of that into the design as well.

Temi: There was a lot of hypotheticals.

Amy: Yeah. I mean, you really have gone through all the scenarios. It’s amazing.

Euge: Yeah. I think it’s our way of thinking and the work that we do, so it, you kind of have to do that.

Jane: What work do you do, do you mind me asking?

Temi: So I’m in HR and employment law and Eugene is in

Euge: Data management. So yeah, so I have to always think of how things are now, how it was in the past, how it will be in the future. So we both have to do that in our lines of work. So it spills over into our personal lives as well.

Jane: The thing that I really loved about your project, which is one of my dreams, is you’ve got an amazing utility space, which is really generous and, looks massively useful and a really good entrance space as well. So you’ve got loads of room when you walk in the door, to just dump bags, get kids ready. We all like to think of ourselves like sat on a sofa with a glass of wine or socializing, but actually the day-to-day grind of everyday life, you’ve planned your house so that all of that just is really a nice space to be in, a nice space to use. That’s, that’s what it looked like to me.

Euge: Oh, thank you.

Temi: I can honestly say the entrance hallway. I, I think I’ll call it our bonus space because

it really does help with the, the madness in the morning and coming home as well. Just you’ve got the space for the kids to spill out while they’re fighting to put their jackets and their shoes on, and, yeah.

Euge: It sounds like your architects got you through planning did that go well? Were there any issues with the planning office?

Temi: There were no issues with the planning office, but there were issues with our neighbors.

However, none of their objections were valid to detract from our actual plans.

And again, we were prepared cuz we, what I say, we, Eugene stalks the planning portal so he can see, he’s seen, you know, in our local area, everybody who has done extensions, like within the last five to seven years, what they’ve done, how they’ve done it.

And that did make it easier for us to understand what we’re asking for. Is that unreasonable? Would they permit that is or is that out of character for the type of house or the type of street we have?

Nothing felt rushed. And anytime that we made a decision like, yep, this is what we’re gonna do, we had a document that we listed down what we were going to do, so that when it came to talking to the architect, the building control, and our builders, we had everything listed out so we didn’t forget.

Cuz there’s a lot of details.

Amy: A lot of nuances when it comes to renovations.So I think once you make a decision or you have a consideration for something or you have a preference, just note it down on the document or on your, on your phone, on a notes app so that it will help you remember, cuz if you try to keep it all in your mind, it’s a losing game.

Jane: And then you kick yourself if you had thought something through and then didn’t bring

Temi: Yeah.

Amy: I have to say, I just feel like there is a sense of calm that is exuding from your renovation experience. I mean, we bang on about planning, taking the time to plan your renovation over and over. But I think it is just, it’s such a joy to hear your experience.

Cause I think you are the proof that it works. The fact that you did it a year before you knew you were going on site. so the issues with your neighbor can be resolved.

They’re not gonna have a knock on effect. I think it, it’s just like kudos to you guys, cuz like you say, not, not everyone does that.

Euge: Yeah and I think just to It’s our calmness coupled with and probably driven by the calmness of our builder slash project manager. So shout, shout out to man like Raj. He basically, if you think we are calm, he’s basically standing up asleep. That’s how calm he is. He. He, he could probably go through stressful times, so things like screed being delayed and things like that.

But the way he’s always come up with Plan Bs and other things to do and things like that. So he always kept us calm. Without him, I don’t think this this whole renovation would’ve been anywhere near as calm as how we, we kind of made out to be and how we felt as well. So, no, it was,

it, it’s, it was a team effort really.

Amy: And how did you find him?

Euge: So he was a recommendation from our architect. So we had gone off and got quotes from a range of builders from like local recommendations, vans that we’d seen, we’ve contacted, we spoke to them and he was actually the, the last builder that we spoke to.He was just finishing a project, so he wasn’t available

Temi: yeah.

Euge: Before that was it.

Temi: I didn’t actually meet with him originally, so, cause I, I’d been busy with work. So Eugene met with him and then he came back and he was like, yep, that’s the one. And I’m, I was like, okay, let’s, let’s see. And then I met him and I was like, yep.

Euge: Yeah, our daughter was there as well, and she liked him. So like, you know, she’s a good judge of character as well.

Jane: What were the key green flags for you that he was gonna be a good match?

Temi: Uh, I love Raj, he is, he’s so calm. He’s a positive person. The key green flag for me, the communication. He showed up when he said he was gonna show up. His team showed up when they said they were gonna show up. If there was any delays, he would’ve already let us know, okay, yeah, we’re delayed today, but we’ve got plan B already coming this afternoon.

You could see the quality and the attention that he’s paying to the detail. And I think one of the other main reasons why we liked him so much is we love renovations. We, we love what you can do to especially like older properties and we are really interested in learning these things. He never got tired of us asking questions, oh, why have you put that kind of steel beam and not this one?

What are you doing to the gra like, you know, like how a kid will constantly ask questions. Why are you doing that? What’s going on here? He would always not only talk to us about, he would show, he took Eugene on as his little apprentice to show like, what, what he’s, he’s doing. He taught me how to tile, I’d never tiled before.

And I tiled the the bit in the utility room. I mean, what other builder would would do that, they would just kind of get on with it themselves. And he, I was like, oh, no, I’d really like to try. And then he gave me all the materials. He talked me through it, then I did it. I think that’s just really key to have a good vibe of somebody from day one, especially when they’re gonna be doing work in your house. You’re gonna be with them every day. They’re gonna be in your personal space cuz they’re, they’re in your home.

And I never once in that whole year of working with Raj got annoyed with him. Got annoyed at the team, not once.

Euge: He was honest as well.

Temi: Yeah, it was,we didn’t feel like we were being cheated over in anything. When we asked a question, he would always answer it. Cuz when it comes to getting quotes, I’m very much like, I need it itemized.

I don’t want you to tell me it’s gonna cost 80 grand to build my house, but you’re not telling me which bit is costing what, because then I feel like, where’s the money actually going? He had no problem with breaking that down.

Jane: Wow.

Temi: He said that he really appreciated that we knew what we wanted. We’d thought things through. We’d paid attention to the type of materials that we wanted.

And that really helped with our working relationship because he then knew. Like, for example, when I, when I said, okay, we’re having wood floor in the kitchen and it’s un floor heating and we’re having un floor heating in the corridor, but that’s gonna be tile. So then we were talking about, okay, what happens when those two surfaces meet?

And he was like, okay, you aren’t going to want there to be a difference in height. So, We have to take that into consideration how much screed that we pour in and that, you know, this time we don’t even have walls yet. And we’re talking about those those little details

So it’s just things like that that he just, just kind of took you along with it. And he was just very understanding. And it just made it easier to work with him.

And when I say him, it’s, it’s an extension. It’s also his, his team as well.

Jane: You can, really see in the detail and the level of finish in, the project. Just how that collaboration has really worked out. I think I’d seen a post where you’d made the desk outta your quartz worktop and it’s, it’s beautiful and it, it, it obviously wasn’t planned and I, I was thinking like, how, how does that happen?

Was that, that ability to be able to converse and come up with ideas and make solutions together, that

led to those things being able to be created.

Temi: Yeah, and I think an aspect as well is like, you know, the social media aspect helps when you are looking at what other people have done. And that also gives you ideas. So then I take those ideas and then I have a little pow wow with Raj. I give him some biscuits and a cup of tea first to sweeten them up.

And I’m be like, oh, I’m thinking about this. What do you think about that? And then after he’s done his sigh, then he’ll, then we talk through the logistics of it. So sometimes I can be a dreamer and be like I want this. Realistically, how would we get that? And then he would talk me through that. And again, it’s all part of planning. I mean, my desk is just cut offs from the quartz from the kitchen. There was so much of it, it’s like it can’t go to waste.

And it’s kind of like forcing us to look around the house, well, what could we use it for? Side tables and et cetera. And yeah, I just came up with the idea of, with Eugene, of, okay, I do want a desk in this area, so why not just have a fancy quartz in there?

Amy: I think it, what’s interesting as well is that. Two-way streets, builders do an amazing job, there’s a lot of pressure on them, but I think what comes through is that you are good clients and that it’s, it’s that two-way street that you, you also need to be ready with the answers. You, you need to be helping them do the thing that they’re trying to do, which is deliver your home. And, and I think sometimes people forget that, actually there’s a lot of work on your side to make that happen.

Euge: Yeah. So I, I think the examples of wanting everything to be level

If you don’t say that at the start, and then it’s all done by the builder because they’re, they will go off on, on their own mindset because they say, you want this space. You haven’t necessarily told me how you want the floor.

And then afterwards you’re like, oh, I didn’t want it like this, but by that time it’s too late. So it’s that preparation. You specify it at the right time,

Temi: And you keep specifying it as well because obviously there’s lots of conversations happening. So you kind of have to keep in a nice way of saying, oh, and so you’ve done this, that’s still gonna be enough space for the under floor heating and the screed for the level floorings, right?

To still give them that chance to, well, it’s not too late to dig something up and fix it.

Euge: Yeah. So it is, it’s the forward planning and then also thinking about when to tell them. And as, as Temi said, the gentle reminders as well. And then it can also, sometimes it may be a case of they’ve taken it on board, but then they need to discuss that with you at a later point

when more relevant. So then you need to make yourself available and ready for that conversation. And that was something, because of the, the time of when we did the build where we were fully working remotely. So, we could easily make ourselves available every lunchtime to go to the house and have that conversation with Raj and with the rest of the team before he would then go on his lunch break at that point as well.

So we always had like, a morning sort of standup conversation. Then an afternoon progress conversation, then a wrap up conversation at the end of the day. And we just around corner, we could do that each day if necessary.

Jane: I think that’s really interesting to hear just the, the level of contact that you had with being on site and, and checking things.

Hearing that you were there, three times a day. Having those conversations and managing to clarify all those little details, it really makes sense. I’m really glad that you’ve brought that up.

Temi: I guess I wanted to ask you about budgets because you were saying that you had your funding goals and you knew that you needed X amount to do the works. How did you go about keeping on target? So we kind of started off with a pot as in, okay, this is the money that we are gonna spend on this renovation based on a bit of research, based on research on the type of finish that we want. Because years before, we’d already looked at the type of kitchen that we want and we got quotes, et cetera, et cetera.

So we had our pot and then we took out the biggest items first, things that had to be paid for, that you don’t really have a lot of variables on. So the, you know, the actual construction costs. Then the next big ticket item was the kitchen and things like the windows and, and stuff like that.

So then, what was then left over was, okay, this is what we have to make it look how we want it to look. And I just had a master spreadsheet where I just had broken everything down. So Raj had his section, I broke it down by each room in the house, to be honest, like what has to go in there.

So that’s, that’s how we kind of, we stayed on track. There was always gonna be elements of, okay, well I want this, this cost, this much.

Euge: You’re quooker tap.

Temi: I want this, it costs this much and I really want this. So we can have this, but I have to let money go somewhere else. So then it would be, okay, I’m gonna have to choose a ch, a cheaper option somewhere else. What pleasantly happened is that

when I was contacting companies to get quotes on items, because it was so big, I just said, look, it’s a massive renovation. Can I get a discount on this? And I just kept asking for discounts and all of those discounts added up so that we could then afford to still get other items that we really wanted. So I think generally in the whole renovation, we don’t feel like we’ve had to really cheap out on anything.

So that is something that I would tell any future renovator ask for a discount, because the worst I can say is no. And to a lot of these companies, having a discounted sale is better than no sale whatsoever.

So yeah, so that’s, so I was very creative with the budget, which is why we were able to afford the quooker tap.

Amy: I, I am very envious, I have to say. That must be just such a joy to use every day. It would,

It would make me very happy.

Temi: I love it. Looking at it every day, I’m

Euge: One day, we’ll need to show our kids what a kettle is because they, never one.

Temi: So, yeah, I would be lying if I said we didn’t go over budget, we did go over budget, but the amount was just under two th 2000. And that is mainly due to one unforeseen issue that we had, which was an unexpected rewire, which cost us at the time, four and a half thousand pounds. So we started renovating, was it time for the electrician to come in to check the electrics. And it was found out that the electrics in the house were just terrible and actually very unsafe.

But fortunately, we still had the money to do that.

Amy: That’s amazing.

Euge: Just to add while they’re doing the rewire, that’s when we thought, okay, anything electrical that we wanted to add while they’re ripping things and putting new wires in. So things like speakers and running internet ethernet cables around the house and, and to the back of the garden, get them to be turned up because you are paying them to be basically rewiring.

So get that all included. So we had to then quickly think on our feet, what do we want, what do we wanna add? And then had them do that as well. So that was beneficial. Obviously an unforeseen cost, but we then started to become creative with that as well.

Temi: And, and they did it smoothly. They did it quickly and they protected my precious Victorian coving, original coving.

Jane: I feel like what also comes through is just the kind of calmness, but also just the level of control over the whole process. I think it, it really is so remarkable. And I, I think you are kind of a perfect case study for other renovators just to take that time and just yeah, the fruit of your labor and all of those discussions,

Amy: you can see it, it’s, it’s incredible.

Temi: Thank you. I mean, there’s no such thing as as perfect because of we, like, we made a mistake with the rewire. What we should have done when we first bought the house is, is got it tested for a re rewire and done all the cracking of the walls. Then instead of rushing into, oh, let’s paint it all nice and do it how we want to sort of live in it until we do the extension.

So that was a, that was a learning curve.

Just a final question. I was just gonna ask your number one piece of advice for other people embarking on a project like yours.

There’s just so much. I think again, I would say if you’re renovating a property and that property is a period property, then definitely before you think of paint color swatches or coving or anything like that, new carpets get your get your electrics checked to make sure that you don’t need to rewire. Cuz that is, is it’s about your safety as well. Get that checked out and your, your windows and your insulation, because those are the things that affect your living standards when you are in, in the house before you think about like spending that money on new floor or you know, redecorating, get the, I guess the, the core foundation of your home checked out first.

I know it will be a pain and you want to put the panelling up because that’s what Instagram and Pinterest is showing but to, because it was quite a shock for us, cuz the, the electrician showed us how poor the wiring was.

So that’s more important than, the prettiness of how your your house looks. So I think that would be one of the key things.

And then the next thing is where you can, cuz I know not everybody has that privilege where you can take your time to plan it out. Take your time to think about how it is gonna work for you, not how you’re going to take pictures of it or show to other people. How does it work for you? And don’t do the keeping up with the Joneses because nobody else is paying that bill but you.

So that would be my key thing. If you focus on those things, everything else kind of falls into place.

Amy: Thank you so much. It is been such a joy to talk to you both.

Euge:

And you too.

Amy: If you’d like to see the photos of the finished project, go to homenotes.co/storiesfromsite.

This wraps up the end of this season. If you’ve enjoyed listening to this series, then please do support us by adding a review. It massively helps us get seen and share these stories with as many renovators as possible.Also check out next week where we’ll be doing a roundup of top tips that people have shared this season. See you then.