Welcome to Stories from Site, the podcast for renovation enthusiasts. I’m Amy Dohnalek and together with my co host Jane Middlehurst, we chat with home renovators about the roller coaster that is renovation.

In this episode, we chat with Natasha about her remarkable 24 year journey of transforming a Victorian house into a beautiful home.

We discuss how she balanced her vision with practical necessities, as well as navigating the challenges of being a location house and the importance of inclusive design.

Amy: Natasha, great to have you with us. We’re really excited to talk about your home, which is very beautiful. I understand it’s a location house and it’s been featured in press and events like Open House. I wondered if you could tell us a bit about your home and the journey you’ve been on to create it.

Natasha: Thanks for having me, So I suppose it’s, it’s, it’s good to go back in time a bit. So I’ve been in this house 24 years this year, when I bought it, it was the second property I bought. The first property I bought, I bought at a time,where property prices were very low.

interest rates were just dropping because it was after the crash and interest rates were high. So I bought a really great time, which meant my first house doubled in value within less than two years. So I did that up and then I moved. I had a one and a half year old. at the time. And I moved to this house, which doesn’t look anything like it look now.

So it was owned by an older couple. Unfortunately, the husband had passed. She was going into care home, but I think they bought it at a time where Victorian architecture was seen as old fashioned. The only things that were left, the chimney breasts were intact, which was great.

And the doors had ply over them. Um, so when I took them off, that was the first thing I did. As soon as I got the keys, but everything else had been taken out, particularly on the ground floor. So there was Artex on the ceilings. There was brown. but not any kind of fashionable or retro brown.

I call it doodoo brown. everywhere, carpets, walls, everything was patterned brown, but not complimentary. So the decor was very dated and there wasn’t a lot of features left, but also it was what, investors would buy now.

So my parents were horrified that I bought it because it had no central heating. The electrics hadn’t been done. So all the stuff that’s not nice to look at but essential needed to be done. I started by doing all of those things first I had very little money at the time because I’d spent it all buying the house.

And I remember in my house, if anyone’s ever seen a picture of it, in the bathroom is a roll top bath, which I bought for 50 pounds. I didn’t have the money to extend the bathroom.

So that,Bath was in my living room for two years one end

Amy: I mean, it’s a beautiful path, but not where you want it.

Natasha: No, no. And I think it’s really, it’s for me telling my story about my home is important to understand that even though on Instagram or social media, it can feel like it’s instant. These things didn’t happen instantly. I didn’t have pocket loads of money. I had to prioritize things for instance, about four months after I moved in, it was raining and I thought it sounds very close this rain and when I walked out into the hallway, it was raining through the roof. So I then had to find money to replace a whole roof,

and that wasn’t money that I budgeted for. So yeah, I think it’s really important in the story to tell all the not so nice stuff that it took to get there as part of my journey. But I’ve always been interested in interior design. I’ve always, even when I wasn’t paid for it, would do other people’s homes, shops, that kind of stuff. So it was my opportunity always to showcase what I do. So everything that you see in my home is an extension of me.

Amy: Amazing.

Jane: That must have been quite daunting with a one and a half year old facing all of those big projects. How did it feel to be in that position?

Natasha: I didn’t have the privilege of being able to live somewhere else and have that done. As I sold that house, that financed this house. I moved in with a one and a half year old. when I look back at it now, there were bits of ceiling missing and I mean, she was fine.

She was good. But literally we lived, in that property. So was it daunting? I don’t know. I just kind of got on with it. Made sure it was safe for her, but knew there was an end goal to it.

Amy: Mm.

Jane: Was there a small element of excitement in there as well?

Natasha: Yeah.

Jane: A hundred percent. for me, I always have a vision of what I want it to look like. I think when my parents walked in and saw it, they were just, flabbergasted that I’d left this,perfect home to move into this place that needed so much work doing. But I saw it as my forever home or long term home.

Natasha: So yeah, there was excitement about what that would look like. And that I could put my own stamp on stuff.

Amy: And can we talk about the time frame? You’ve been in 24 years, and then this kind of step by step renovation, how long, has that taken?

Natasha: It’s still continuing I mean, mostly that’s the aesthetics now, but I would say, the biggest reno, Besides the, all the stuff around the electrics and, and, central heating was the kitchen I was in that house 15 years before I did the kitchen. There were no drawers in my kitchen.

None at all. I don’t understand how she lived with a kitchen without drawers. There were two cupboards. there was a leaky gas, fire, which I had to have condemned. so that came out and I put in a kitchen that lasted 15 years

It was fine painted, but there was always this awful Artex, swirly Artex on the ceiling, I refused. I said, I’m not taking it off until I do, because my mom was like, oh, paint it. I’m like, no, if I’m doing it, I’m doing it all. the kitchen was done about eight years ago now.

It was never a small kitchen.

it wasn’t quite a galley kitchen, it was quite long. You could get a table in there, but it was really cold. There wasn’t much light coming in. It was very functional. We never spent much time in there. Even at Christmas, no one really wanted to sit in the kitchen because it was cold.

Amy: Yeah.

Natasha: And you didn’t want to have your bum near the fridge because that’s where everybody’s going to get the champagne and Prosecco stuff. So that was the timeline for that. In terms of the bathroom, if I said it was two years having that, roll top bath in the living room, then maybe about year three or four is when I extended the bathroom into the third bedroom because that was a large bedroom and then brought the bath upstairs.

Jane: I bet that was a good moment

Natasha: Well, you know, the funny thing is I don’t even like baths.

So the person that uses the bath the most is my dog because I’ve gone through the menopause. So sitting in a hot bath was not something that I aspired to do. Showers every day. So yeah, it looks good, but it’s not used very often.

Amy: That’s definitely it.

Jane: really funny.

Amy: And did you do an extension? Did you infill

Natasha: next to that narrow kitchen?Yes, so absolutely. So the other thing is that whilst they, took out a lot of stuff, the man that lived there before used to collect a lot of what I call tut.

There was a big window, which looked out onto the side return,He had this big lean to right in front of both windows. So that came down and then it’s a small garden, but there was a shed, which was like a third of the garden.

I couldn’t understand why, so that came down and in there I found the original French doors. that would have gone out from the side return. So I had that replaced and it’s still in the extension.

Amy: That’s so nice.

Natasha: Yeah. So that door, which would have led to the side return now leads into the kitchen. So about eight years ago, I decided, right, I’ve got enough money saved. And again, around context, building materials have gone up a lot. Transparency mine cost about 65, 000 all in. That was my budget. That’s build, put stuff in, everything.

Amy: Wow. Amazing.

Natasha: I’d say it’s probably almost double that now for some people.

Amy: I think you’re right. Yeah,

Natasha: So those are the prices from eight years ago.

Because even when I’m doing work now, and work with builders. They talk about building materials has gone up so much. So

it’s not just about their prices have gone up, but the actual materials have gone up as well.

So I was fortunate, I had a low mortgage. I’d saved some money. So I was able to pay for that extension. Now, originally, I had it all mapped out in my head, what that was going to look like, and that it would go straight across, go out by meters from where the end of the kitchen is and straight across.

But in my borough, they don’t allow that kind of extension. They talk about it has a chamber effect in terms of light for your neighbour. So you can have an L shaped extension, which is what I ended up with. I went three meters out. At the longest part, and then from those double doors, I was allowed to go six meters, which created that L shape in the end.

I was upset at first because I’d had this plan of what was going to be the crittal doors that went straight across. But actually, every problem you can think of as just a different solution in the end to what that design looks like. So I was able to put in a window seat.

And I think it creates more interest.

I wouldn’t have been able to do that if I’d just gone straight across.

Jane: Yeah. Sometimes the constraints lead to interesting design solutions.

Natasha: Absolutely. Yes.

Amy: I think, what’s really valuable about this conversation is the kind of slow reno and having to do things bit by bit is becoming more and more, just like the only way to renovate. I guess what I’m curious about is, your end vision and obviously this is happening over so many years and Trends change your taste adapts to what’s happening.

I just wondered how you kept a vision for the end space because when you look at your home, it’s so cohesive and vibrant and beautiful. I wondered if you had a strategy for how you achieve that.

Natasha: So I think on a superficial level, it’s not that I didn’t decorate throughout the years but my home really reflects me as a person. I’m very,I wear very colorful clothes. I think I definitely stand out in a crowd and that’s not about getting attention from people. That’s just who I am.

I have so many ideas in my head. That if I had endless money, my house would probably change every few years anyway. so it’s not like I had a strategy or an end goal but once I have decided on a vision, that’s the vision that I see through.

So I can tell you that in every single room, as I had initially visualized it in my head, the mood boarded is exactly as it came out.

Amy: Yeah, no, that’s really

helpful.

Natasha: for your listeners to think about is do what you like. And if that, if that’s on trend, that’s cool. I always tell this story of, a woman that I follow, whose name I won’t give, but has a very big following. And when I started following her, her style was very dark and moody.

All her rooms were really dark and moody. And then one day she said, I really hate dark and moody. In fact, I love Scandi style. Can someone be so influenced by trends that you’re living in a space that doesn’t really reflect you? So I’m not saying that, of course, there are things in my house which are on trend.

It’s because I like them, not because I want to keep on trend. And I think that’s such an important message just because everybody’s painting their house grey or whatever, if that’s not you, then don’t do it. If Scandi isn’t you, then don’t do it. If clutter is you and you’re happy with it, it doesn’t matter whether it’s on trend, you know?

Jane: I think sometimes people. They don’t know what they like, actually. So, before maybe jumping into something, there’s a whole process of actually working out, what it is that you like. it’s not very obvious for people.

Natasha: I agree. And that’s when my clients come to me in terms

of interior design.

I also start with, okay, so you might not know what my style is exactly, but show me something that you have that you value. Now it could be Aunt Jane’s old chair that you inherited, or a piece of pottery that you picked up when you were on holiday.

And we can build around that. And I’m also there to push people and challenge them to do something a little bit different. Otherwise, what’s the purpose of me being there if I’m not pushing you a little bit out of your comfort zone.

Amy: Can I also ask you about, secondhand pieces? I know that’s something that’s important to you. And I quite liked, a post about how you’re saying, the language has changed from, you know, people say used or vintage or retro, but actually it’s all secondhand.

And I know that you use some pieces in your home and I’d be interested to know if it’s easy always to incorporate, and kind of what’s your ethos behind it.

Natasha: Secondhand has always been a part of my life. from when I was a student and I couldn’t afford, from clothing. shoes. I have a shop nearby, Gigi’s dressing room where I often go if I’ve got a wedding to go to.

That’s secondhand. You could call it vintage but I’m not the only person wearing it. It’s not the first time it’s come out of a package. So I’ve never had a problem with it. I can remember bringing home when I lived at my parents and I still have this bookcase. And my dad said, how do you know it’s not got woodworm?

How do you know that he’s always got this thing about woodworm? Thankfully I’ve never bought anything secondhand, that’s had woodworm, but that was his main thing. why do you want something that other people have had? Most houses, unless they’re brand new, are second hand, right?

And no one blinks an eye. You buy the oldest house and people are like, wow, that’s great. You’ve got such a characterful house. But there might be ten people who’ve lived there before but no one has a problem about that. But they do about second hand furniture. So, Yeah, so firstly, I’ve always loved it and incorporated it.

There is, a couple of things about it. This might sound bizarre, but I imagine it has a story behind it, because I’m not the only person that’s owned it. So a few years ago I bought a, I’m very into mid century furniture. a few years ago I bought a coffee table and the woman that I bought it off was clearing her parents homes because they’d passed.

And she hadn’t realized how, how wanted these pieces were. So they were going for dirt cheap. And she said the house just emptied in no time whatsoever. But she was telling me on, on this, this coffee table, her and her brother used to play cards when they were children. And she was in her fifties. they used to do jigsaws.

So I love that each of my pieces, I can imagine a story. The other thing I love about secondhand furniture is it’s often very well made, which is why it’s lasted a long, long time.

So it’s not like if I go to a shop, I’m often finding a piece that not many other people are going to have. I like the uniqueness. So is it easy to incorporate? For me, it is because again, I’m kind of a rebel. I don’t think you have to stick to one particular style. So if I think about my living room, I have in there, secondhand, vintage, retro, whatever you want to call it, mid century furniture.

Amy: I’ve got high end pieces. I’ve got an Ikea sofa that I’ve had reupholstered. So it’s a mixture of things. And personally, for me, it works. So it’s not difficult for me to incorporate those kinds of thingsI think also it’s really a lovely approach to see ourselves as guardians of things, and I think sometimes people see that with houses, like you’re kind of looking after it for the future inhabitants but I like that you apply that to the furniture that goes within, becauseif you look after it,

it’s just your one part of the jigsaw, And continue. I like that.

Natasha: To me, it makes my house very unique by having those, It could just be a chair in there and it just breaks up that room a bit by having that different texture, that different era in with something that could be quite modern.

Amy: And how is it with the location house? Do you enjoy that process?

Natasha: I never

intended to be, I don’t know if anyone ever intends to be a location house. Perhaps they do. I didn’t. I think what happened was, location agents, well, they’re always looking on social media. And once you’ve been in magazines, and I’ve done things with brands.

Suddenly it becomes known to location agents. So I started to get flooded. I didn’t even know what a location, house was. until someone said, have you ever considered it? And I’m not too, I’m not precious. I think anyone that’s been into my home will say they love it. They don’t feel that they have to tippy toe around.

It’s still, it feels warm and inviting. So I’m not precious except for my art that is about my home too much. One agent said, you know, you can make some holiday money from this. It’s not an income, but it’s holiday money. So yeah, it’s, it started. In lockdown actually, and since then we’ve had loads of shoots from editorials to adverts, short films.

We had in the kitchen a virtual concert with Oxlade, He’s a massive Afrobeat artist and he came with a band. And they did a concert in my kitchen and then it went out virtually. So, so there are some things that are very cool. And then,recently old El Paso did an advert in the kitchen.

That was a four day shoot and they picked the kitchen cause they liked it and then they completely changed it. So they painted the kitchen

Jane: My gosh.

Natasha: They put yellow vinyl on my drawers. They had a different color splat. It looked completely different. The only thing that was the same was the floor.

Jane: That makes me feel quite stressed,

Natasha: I was extremely stressed. Yeah. They kept saying to me, honestly, we are going to put it back exactly as it was, it was an opportunity to get a refresh on my paint, you know, cause it had been, seven years at that point, since it had been done. But because I stayed at my parents, when I came in one day with the dog and saw it, I was like, oh my god, what if this never goes back to how it was before?

But they were, they were brilliant and everything went back to exactly, it was as if they hadn’t been there.

Jane: What a magic trick. That’s so crazy that they can do that or that they even want to do that.

Natasha: Yeah, and it’s such a short, period of time, I kept thinking they’re never gonna meet the deadline, because they were Tuesday to Friday, And they don’t work on weekends, so they had to be done by Friday. And I kept thinking, this is not going to happen. And it was done.

Jane: That’s

Amy: Wow, that’s remarkable.

Natasha: Yeah. So it is fun. It can be stressful. I don’t stay around sometimes. Cause one of my rooms I use as an office, I’d be in my office, but now I’ve got a dog, I just want to be offsite

Amy: Yeah.

Natasha: If seeing people move stuff around is what stresses me out, I’d rather go out, let them do what they have to

do.

Come back

and it’s fine. Yeah.exactly.

Amy: Natasha, the last question I have for you. You mentioned that you started your journey with your one and a half year old daughter and, I think I saw you are an empty

nester for the first time.

And I just wondered, often the spaces change and adapt to see our children growing, don’t they? And I just wondered how that’s been for you.

Natasha: Yeah,

for my daughter, her room moved from a baby’s room to a 10 year old then a teenagers room and then an adult because she left just before she turned 25.

So that was that. Yeah. It had to adapt It’s really interesting now because she’s renting where she lives and she’s very critical she’s like, I can’t believe they haven’t got this.

And what can we do about that?And when she first moved in, she wanted to change everything. And I was like, live there for a bit. Because it’s not that you can’t do anything to a rented space, but before you start putting on, vinyl tiles or anything like that, and actually it’s not a great space, so she will be moving out.

But yeah,I didn’t realize how much she appreciated design, because she’d just roll her eyes every time I was spending money on design. But she really does, it really has impacted

how she sees things. And the final, sort of iteration of,of this room that I’m sitting in actually, which was my daughter’s bedroom, is now it’s a guest bedroom.

And so, yeah, being able to change that up and make that work, but I love interiors, so it’s always an excuse, isn’t it, me to,

I mean, literallythe day she moved out, it was like, right, so what do I need to order? I need to order this.

Jane: She just popped back for something and it’s already been taken apart.

Natasha: She took all the furniture, so, you know, I had to start again. It will always be her room, but yeah, it’s now a guest room.

Jane: I have one final question, which is, you said you worked in diversity and I know that your Instagram talks a lot about inclusion.

I just wondered if you had any thoughts about the industry and, any takes on it or changes that you’d like to see?

Natasha: Yeah. So I think what was interesting is that after 2020, the algorithms changed. people were seeing black homes or interior designers. So I had loads of people reach out and say, I had no idea you were there.

You know, I’ve looked for interiors or black interior designers, couldn’t find them. But I’ve always been there. My page went from, I don’t know, a couple of hundred people to 5, 000 within less than a month at one point because of the algorithms. And actuallyin design, you want diversity

of design.

And it also helps people to understand that Black and brown people are not just monoliths, you know, we have different design tastes. Some of us like Scandi, some of us like secondhand, just like anybody else And you want to be invigorated by all of that because for me, diversity benefits everyone.

Everybody in any space that you think about, and particularly around creativity, I don’t know if you both remember, but a few years back now in the UK. I can’t remember the magazine, but they did the 50 interior designers to look out for. And they had this whole panel of all white people. These were interior designers in the UK.

Jane: do remember

Natasha: Uh, do you remember? And there were 49 white people in that article. And there was one woman who was Asian. And it always surprises me but it shouldn’t cause I’ve been working in diversity for about 30 years is no one said, nobody, nobody, nobody in PR, nobody in

legal, nobody on that

panel.

Jane: You think how many processes that has to go through and all the different departments.

Natasha: Nobody, nobody noticed it until it got to social media and there was a big outcry about it. Now again, I’m annoyed with them because they were very performative. There are lots of great Black and brown designers who were established, their response was they want to do some grassroots stuff, which means people are entry level, which is I think very patronizing to assume that black and brown designers are only at entry level.

No, you haven’t recognized them. That doesn’t mean that they need to come in at entry level. And then I, amongst other people, suggested, you know, not only am I an interior designer but I specialize in diversity and inclusion. They’re like, yeah, yeah, we want to work with you. Then I never heard from them again. So it was all a bit of a PR thing around, oh, we’re really sorry, we’ll do better next year or whenever.So what do I want? Like most industries, recognize that talent comes in many different shapes, and forms. And actually, commercially, it benefits you to understand that. To me, even on a business level, it makes no logical sense to keep showing the same sorts of people with the same sorts of ideas when there is a myriad of people out there. So not only ethically is it important, but it just makes no sense commercially, that you’re looking at it in one kind of monolithic way. So yeah, but is it a lifelong struggle? I think it is when you’re marginalized in a space where you are in a minority. Yeah. But I, I’d like to see them doing more of that beyond performative, beyond George Floyd, beyond anything that might be current.

And seeing actually it makes a difference, showing all of that diversity.

Jane: Yeah, there’s so many amazing, talented people of colour in both the interior design and architecture worlds.

Natasha: A hundred percent.

And I’d say the other thing around inclusion is I did a piece on inclusive language, which went viral.

Amy: Yeah, I watched that.

Natasha: Yeah, and I just think they’re simple things that we can change that don’t have a, and that’s not just about race. That’s also about classism.

That’s also about gender.

That’s also about sexual orientation, just things because language is really powerful. And so you might think, oh, I don’t mean anything by it. You know, when I say plantation shutters, Yet you might not feel it because it doesn’t impact you, but other people do.

Amy: Yeah. Absolutely.

Natasha: say shutters

or louvered shutters, you know, it’s not like you’re losing the essence

of what that, that,

product really is.

Jane: Yeah.

Natasha: But I got some really good positive feedback. Like there’s a big influencer who said she’d just done a piece talking about changing her main bedroom and she’d called it the master bedroom. She’s like, Oh my gosh. But when she went to do the story, she called it main bedroom, principal bedroom,

Amy: Yeah.

Natasha: largest bedroom.

I don’t know. It doesn’t have to, we’re not in upstairs and downstairs.

Jane: So there’s, there’s all of those things. Yeah.

Well, I think it’s an amazing thing and you know, I hope that we can share as many stories as possible. I think

Everybody, you know, deserves to have a home that they love and that they enjoy.

Like you said about your daughter renting, I think that’s one of the things that we haven’t gone to yet is that there’s just so many people who aren’t homeowners and that’s much harder for them to

Amy: Mm.

Jane: comfortable for them.

Natasha: Yeah. And I’ve rented in the past and you don’t have to own a house or a property to make it your home.

you might be limited somewhat about some of those structural changes, but it is possible.

And we do need to hear more of those kinds of stories

because I think

the majority of people

are in that situation.

Jane: it’s true.

Natasha: The slow reno is, is everything. That’s the reality, unless

you’ve got, money tree at the bottom of your garden.

And I didn’t like, borrowing lots of money and being in lots of debt. For me, it was important for it to be in stages. And of course, that doesn’t mean I didn’t put out flowers or, buy, some prints or something that made it feel that way.

Even amongst all the dust. There would still be fresh flowers because I think

you have to have something nice to have a look at

However small it is that just you can’t be like oh okay there’s some daffodils there all

right that’s 1. 50 for a bunch of

daffodils.

Jane: So, you’re in the middle of a renovation and you’re despairing. Go and get yourself some daffodils.

Natasha: There you go.

Amy: Oh, thank you so much It’s been so lovely to chat to you.

Natasha: Thank you.

Jane: If you would like to see pictures of Natasha’s gorgeous home that had to our website at homenotes.co/storiesfromsite and we’ll see you next time.