Amy: Welcome to Stories from Site, the podcast for renovation enthusiasts. I’m Amy Dohnalek and together with my co host Jane Middlehurst, we chat with home renovators about the roller coaster that is renovation.

This week we chat with Kylus, a seasoned architect with a passion for designing spaces that promote well being.

We discussed the process of renovating his own mid terrace Victorian house, focusing on the integration of wellness design principles.

Kailas shares insights on the difference between wellness and well being, the benefits of biophilia in architecture, and the challenges of being both an architect and a client.

Amy: So welcome to the podcast, Kailas. Really great to have you with us. We would love to know a bit about your project. I guess it would be good also to know a bit about your background and what you do as a job and how that’s informed the project.

Kailas: Thanks for inviting me, Jane and Amy. I’m an architect. my passion is designing for wellbeing. So I’ve been, architecting for probably 25, 30 years. Through all of our projects now, we try to instill a sense of contemplative design and, wellness design, creating healthy buildings for both humans and for the planet.

We don’t really do homes, I did homes a long time ago, but recently not, not really. So this was a good opportunity to test out everything I’ve been preaching and take a few risks. Cause when you’re doing projects for like clients and big projects, there’s certain liabilities and certain, things that they don’t want you to do.

So this was an opportunity to put my money where my mouth is and a lot of money too much. basically test them out, use it like a living lab. So we found, this, mid terrace Victorian house in the end of 2021.

And we kind of fell in love with it because it hadn’t really been touched. The architecture was the existing Victorian architecture. Even the sash windows were single glazed and knackered. So we had to replace them, but we did it sensitively. There was no loft extension or rear extension.

So the exterior was kind of. Perfect. The interior, on the other hand, was not, it was a layered approach to the building. So for example, there was a heating system from the sixties, which had become obsolete. And so rather than removing it, they encased it and added a new heating system and even,all the deco had been layered.

like layers and layers of wallpaper, which is cool. It was like a history trip when you’re peeling away

Amy: Absolutely.

Kailas: so obviously we’d have to change completely the interiors and we felt we kind of had a blank canvas once we’d done that soft strip to add our healthy interventions.

Amy: When you say these kind of principles that you wanted to trial can you explain what those were

Kailas: So, do you know the difference between wellness and well being?

It’s kind of, so, so, so basically well being is where you arrive at. It’s the sense of being healthy. Wellness is the strategies you take to get to that position. So you’re never really going to get to a complete point of well being, but it’s about the journey, the wellness approaches and how you live that journey to become Healthy

It’s proven now that how you live and where you live is more important than medical interventions or your genes. So what we do as designers is hugely important in influencing

Amy: Yeah,

Kailas: So where were we?Okay. So there’s two main methods for design. There’s the well building standard And fit well, so I’m a well building, accredited professional and a fit well ambassador, which means I can design in those two ways,

They’re very complicated and there’s a lot to them. for this home, I wanted to simplify it and make it more accessible to more people. So we, We touched upon, three approaches to designing for wellbeing.

One of them was eat well, which is kind of a healthy kitchen. Sleep well, which was creating spaces, which will support a, better way to sleep and rest and stairwell, which is about moving well and countering the pathologies of cardiovascular disease, diabetes. That kind of stuff. So we basically focus on the, these three aspects.

First of all, with the stairwell, we added a loft to the, to the Victorian Terrace, which meant there was a lot more stairs to climb, which could be deemed as, a negative. You know, it could be a chore. Oh God, I’ve got to climb up these stairs again. We tried to reframe it. So it’s the idea of creating this journey through the building, adding points of biophilia.

Amy:

Kailas: So biophilia is the idea that if we have a connection with nature, it’ll make us feel healthier. when we evolved as human beings, we evolved in nature

And when you moved into cities, we start surrounding ourselves with, you know, Gray angular buildings and that created a sense of psychological stress. So it’s about going back to that kind of relationship with nature. Biophilia. So through our staircase we try to create these organic forms, organic balustrades, using modern technologies like CNC cutting, which is computer controlled cutting of wood, to create these more ornate, organic forms in a more economic fast way.

And then we created views onto the gardens to create these nice breaks on this journey. So it’s kind of like reframing how you feel about moving up a staircase. So rather than being a chore, it becomes this nice break from your day to day pressures and, hassles in life.

Amy: Can I ask you who is occupying or what’s the loft space used for?

Kailas: So there’s only two of us. So we do have a lot of choice of spaces at the moment, but currently the loft is Is kind of where we’re going to have our office, ultimately all the architecture has been done. Maybe I’ll digress very quickly in terms of the, the process and the history.

Sowe bought it in 2022. We did a planning application, before we moved in. And as an architect, you prepare for the worst. we did the planning application, the, party wall, applications, the building control engagement.

Before we even moved in. And, then we use that eight week planning period to do all of our documentation preps and engage with contractors. So phase one, which was the first phase was adding a loft and doing the first floor, which was the bedrooms and adding two bathrooms on those floors.

And then when we moved in. We started designing phase two, which was the ground floor and the lower ground floor. They would be the kitchen and dining in the low ground floor, and then the kind of commutal spaces on the ground floor. So that will be done in phase two as a different contract after we’ve moved in.

We made sure that the bedrooms had very little kind of psychological noise. So we made all the the cupboards very simple and, and timber so minimalist, but warm.

And we made sure there was. Nothing in the space that could distract us from resting and sleep in the bedrooms. And then before you sleep, you, you occupy the bathroom space. On the first floor, we, we positioned a new shower room in the center of the house because we felt the, the bedroom should have the natural light. So that kind of created, I suppose challenges for creating a, shower space, which is more connected with nature.

So we, we synthesized it. So we used biomimicry, we used a waterproof wallpaper in the shower space uh, which I’ve been trying to convince my clients to use for probably five six years, but they never have because it’s waterproof wallpaper in a shower room. What are you doing Kailas? So we did it and we installed it ourselves Which was a huge challenge and and it’s amazing that it’s beautiful,

It creates this some backdrop of a forest Along the the shower space and then we’ve added new real planting. We’ve also installed circadian lights. So these are lights which track the intensity and color temperature of the sunlight. So when you’re in the space during the daytime, you get that kind of bright blue hit.

So you feel more awake. And then when you’re about to sleep, when you brush your teeth, it has a red um, less intense tone and

Amy: Wow, that’s so cool.

Kailas: So it’s meant to prepare you for sleep.

Can I ask you this approach, I’m, I’m loving hearing about it. And I wonder do you also go through into the material choices there’s kind of bad paint and there’s good paint. There’s, you know, there’s lots of different types of materials.

Amy: And I just wondered if you could talk a bit about that.

Kailas: So, talking about paint, In all of the corridor and basement spaces, we used a clay based paint, which I think is clay born is the name of the paint supplier, and it’s slightly more expensive than normal paint. But but paint’s cheap compared to everything else you spend on so so the good thing about it It’s the the the actual application is really beautiful.

It’s really nice to apply and clay has a health being quality to it. So there’s some stuff which is scientifically proven which I’ll state and there’s some stuff which is a bit Dubious which I’ll clarify as well. The stuff which is solid is the fact that clay can absorb toxins and it can moderate Humidity in the environment.

So it absorbs moisture when it’s too too humid and expels it when it’s too dry it also releases Negative ions, which is real real science which get absorbed by the bloodstream, which is real science. There is, there’s, there, there is studies out there which show that, that those negative ions influence your the biochemicals and they help release serotonin, which is a mood enhancing hormone and it’s meant to make you happy basically.

So that stuff is, it’s kind of, it’s, it’s not completely BS, but you know, there, there is kind of studies out there which may mean it’s true. But, but anyway, it looks cool. It looks cool. And it does do certain things. Absorb toxins.

Amy: No, but I love that you’ve thought it through to that, that kind of level of detail. I think that’s

Kailas: Yeah, and we’ve always wanted to try, or I’ve always wanted to try all of this stuff. And it was just the right opportunity. And even the light fittings, the light switches,so it’s a company called Corston who do really expensive brass brass light fittings.

So we want to install those because they, they have a warmth, a psychological warmth, which stainless steel doesn’t have. And also they’re a copper ally. So. Copper’s got anti microbial quality. Which means it kills germs. So the surf, the microsurface of copper is slightly spiky. So when, when bacteria touch it, it spikes through and kills the, it kills the nucleus.

Amy: So, so it’s got an antimicrobial quality and it looks psychologically warming to us. So there’s all these details, which I think are super important. And only I will notice them. But anyway, Jane, I feel like you have a question you want to ask.

Jane: Oh, no, I’m just really enjoying the level of

detail. Like

Amy: I can see you writing those,

Jane: I am writing notes.

I think I’m just happily surprised, because obviously when we talk about wellness, a lot of it’s intangible, and I really love the scientific backing that you’re talking about. It just makes it

Kailas: Yeah.

 

Jane: Do you feel those small interventions that you’ve made? Obviously you lived probably in a house before that didn’t have them. Have you noticed, or is it, is it kind of, you know because you’ve done it kind of thing?

Kailas: That’s the million dollar question. So the world building standard and the fit well, they, they kind of lean into all the physiological benefits. So, measuring the quality of carbon dioxide in the air and all the stuff you can measure. The thing about are you happy, you can’t measure it.

So, they don’t, they don’t lean into those aspects. But there is new neuroscience, which will measure brain activity now, which might help. But to be honest with you I feel in an architectural sense, I feel better because we’ve done the two phases. We’ve done all the architecture and it’s kind of the way we wanted it to be.

But I don’t know. I meditate every morning. And people ask me, does it make you feel better? And You never know because you meditate. So if you didn’t meditate, you know,

Amy: you don’t know what to compare it

Kailas: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But, but I think it’s, it’s definitely physically healthier.

I decided to add an MVHR system, which basically it takes.

The moist, warm air from the kitchens and bathrooms and the smelly air from those spaces takes it to a unit, keeps the heat, throws out that moist carbon rich air, brings in oxygen rich air, which is cooler, gives it that heat, and it puts it into the living spaces. So internally you create a flow of air as well.

 

So it controls smells and oxygen levels and vectors in the air as well. Which are less of an issue in our home, but are still important. So, so with that, with the insulation and the air source heat pump, cause we, we had a a gas cooker and a gas combi boiler, we removed those. So with the new interventions, we’re hoping we can obviously be kinder to the environment and reduce our heating bills in the near future. It’s not going to happen yet because, you know, the government is still burning gas to create electricity but hopefully in the future we’ll have a renewable house.

Amy: That’s amazing. And can I ask you about the eat well

side of things?

Kailas: So Eatwell is The kitchen we found was very small, cluttered, and had a very small aspect to the garden, which was south facing, which is good.

So lots of lovely natural light coming in, but there wasn’t enough of an opportunity to enjoy that sunlight and that view. So we opened up the rear, created these really nice large scape sliding windows, which were a nightmare to get into the house. But they’re now beautiful. And then we framed the whole space with these really, warm timber doors.

So the idea was to create this bespoke kitchen. Which kind of has doors which open out into the the The pantry room the amenity room and then also act as enclosures To the dining room so they become enclosures then they open up to become the cupboard doors for the kitchen it’s super complicated super bespoke and we try to do it, with a kind of standard kitchen designer because I didn’t want the hassle of all the coordination, but we couldn’t find anyone to do it. So then we decided to go with Ikea and a company called Plykea who, who do these very nice doors, which fit over the Ikea carcasses. And it allowed us to then use those Plykea doors to both create covered doors.

Amenity doors and also the doors, which kind of separate the dining from the kitchen. And it was a huge coordination nightmare. And the contractor still has sleepless nights, he tells me over this coordination,

So it was just like so I got the contract to laser measure the whole space continuously after each stage And then mark it out and in the end he I don’t know if he thanked me, but he appreciated that kind of level of detail.

Cause it, cause it meant that it worked really well. And they were, they were, they were amazing. They’re really, they’re really good. And the end end product is just like, it was good. Yeah. Yeah. I’m

Amy: seen a video actually of you kind of moving the doors in various configurations. It’s, it’s incredible. Yeah.

Kailas: Yeah, I’m happy with that.

And the the actual floor finishes are marmolium, which is like a lino, like a gray lino. Color coordinates with the decking outside. So it’s, it feels like a seamless space from dining kitchen to decking, I’m trying to create these rolling, and it’s all level as well, trying to create these rolling working platforms, which can be taken outside.

You can do your prep outside. You can grow kind of grow a kitchen garden outside, then you can run it back in. So if the London weather permits, you’ve got this really kind of, you know, mobile, flexible, open space. We just have to live it now because we’re not really enjoying it yet.

We’re still kind of doing the final tweaks.

Amy: Yeah.

You need to wait for the spring.

Kailas: Yeah. Wait for the spring. Yeah.

Jane: because the video we’ve seen just to kind of explain for people at home, like it’s, it’s a very minimal space isn’t it? So you’ve created this very calm. Like all the cupboard doors closed. And then we’ve seen a video of you walking around, which is like the kitchen cupboards open, they conceal things behind.

So like you said, there’s a pantry hidden behind one door and an entrance space hidden by another. But when you look at it at first, you wouldn’t know they were there. And then the two big doors that close, it’s a bit like one of those TikToks with the micro apartments where things pull out, you know, and things move.

Kailas: So the idea with those doors also, it’s playful, it’s fun, ultimately, but the idea was when, when you close it off, it becomes a place for ourselves and guests to just have this calm, open space, which links inside to out.

And it has this, sense of a contemplative space, which means a calm space, which has a simplicity, but warmth to it. So, so in kind of meditation Parliament is about kind of removing all the clutter so that you’ve got space to think about the important stuff in life,

Amy: Mm.

Kailas: actually.

Amy: And also I like the practicalities of it. ’cause I think, I’m sure you’re, you’re not like me, but I’m a very messy cook And when you have people around, you also just want to like appear that you’re not kind of like, you know, in chaos. So I like that you can just fold things away and then it’s like, Oh yeah, this is serene and

Jane: later.

Amy: for everybody.

Kailas: exactly. People are always amazed. God, you guys live in such like perfection here. Yeah, we see where we know.

So I guess I will, I wonder, being an architect, Do you feel like you’ve learned lessons that you want to implement with your clients and, and new projects?

Yeah. So a lot of my colleagues and people I know come to see it and they say, Oh, this is amazing. It’s a shame that you’ll never get to use this ever again in any of your projects. But, but I kind of do, I kind of want to do more homes now, cause it was a really enjoyable experience and the engagement

has been really interesting. And I think I’ve learned about how I want to design and how I want to, you know, develop these kinds of projects. The idea of being a client and an architect is really complicated,

and there is a conflict of interest. So I had to be actually more lenient with contractors than I would be on a normal job because I didn’t want it to kind of, you know, because they trusted me to be fair.

In this relationship. So I had to be overly fair towards them. So I kind of let them go away with a bit more than I would normally, but then because it was my home, I had the time and I, I don’t have the money, but yeah, I had the time and I have the ability to tweak things myself. If things really go wrong and be there to kind of nudge them.

Cause the time I spent on this project is not cost effective. You know, it’s just every, every day, every other day, just like. Sketching stuff and there’s so many drawings and ideas developed which was, which is good. You know, you want to test out your ideas but you do all these. Drawings and these kind of developments.

And then the contractor never really looks at most of the stuff. You know, they do a pricing document based on what they think it will be. And then when you go on site and you say, have you seen drawing 530201? They go, what? And then they, I printed everything out in a folder. I was really well organized and, and I, and I actually did all the CDM stuff and I kind of printed it and put it on the walls, said, this is your toilet.

This is all this stuff, there was one example is the staircase. On phase one, we, we designed it all. It was really beautiful, but then the contractors stair guy got the levels wrong. So this was like days and days of designing this beautiful thing. So he got the levels wrong. And then the stair came onto site and it was nothing, nothing fit.

So then we had to, in like literally. I think 10 minutes, we need to redesign everything in 10 minutes, get it working. But it looks amazing now. You wouldn’t notice, but it’s just like after all that prep, so you make plans and then sometimes you have to throw them in the bin and then start again.

Amy: But I think that’s kind of an interesting point because I thinkthe residential world of building things is very different, and there is just a lot moregive and take, I think, has to happen on site and like you say, when you’re the architects, like if you do have an architect on site with your builder, I think that does help because you just have a third party who is, you know, the mediator between your client’s interests and the builder’s interests and you can say, okay, this is fair, this, you know, like, that person is so valuable, but I think we’ve, we’ve found that people can’t afford an architect on site all the time.

Or if like yourself, you’re actually wearing both hats, it becomes so I guess it’s like polarized. It’s like you versus them. And that becomes quite tricky. And, and it’s big amounts of money and you know, the product that you’re building is, has emotional meaning. yeah, I think that complicates it as well.

Kailas: The money is an interesting kind of thing to think about in terms of context, because it’s, there’s such huge amounts, these are massive amounts of spending and you have to stay calm and, you know magnanimous with the contracts and keep them on side and they were good guys, but both contracts were awesome.

But you still, you know, when you, when this is, we’re artists, we’re poor. Yeah. So when we’re spending this amount of money, it’s just like, Oh, what am I doing? So yeah, I freak it out. And it’s my decision to do this crazy thing, which is, which is costing a fortune. So, so with staircase, for example, I kind of.

I worked with him and we, we actually found a really good solution and we used, I mentioned CNC before we, we used, CNC cutting to, to kind of infill the areas. So yeah, actually you can only, it looks better now. So, you know, it’s, it’s about working with them and kind of understanding that they have a.

they have mouths to feed and and you kind of need to just leave them by the hand sometimes because they are, they are small contractors and they don’t have time to do all the prep

basically.

Amy: And their margins aren’t actually big.

Jane: No,

How did they feel about, you know, the different materiality? I’m thinking like the clay paint and things, did they know about your agenda for the building and, and the things that you were testing?

Kailas: So they, they both did like, so phase one was a single contractor with one guy helping him out. So it was, a more kind of engaged process more, more of a dialogue and phase two was a, was a larger contractor because the basement, there was stuff that just needed to be done, a lot of ripping out, a lot of kind of grunt work, and it was a lot faster, so, and that was prepped a lot better, because I, because I’d kind of learned from phase one.

So they kind of could have, if they looked at the drawings, they could have just gotten with it. But anyway, they were good. With phase one. The loft because the back is south facing, the front has to have a terrace so you don’t see the loft from the front road. So most people create a vertical front to the terrace.

What I did was I angled the the front so the light from the back hits the terrace. So the, the, Thomas was going, oh, why are we doing this? It’s so complicated. It’s not necessary. And I was explaining to him and in the end he said, wow, you’re right because and he never says that. So because when you look at the other, other terraces, they’re all dark up until the evening, just before the evening.

And whereas the terrace here. Has light all the time, and I’ve hung these hangy, planty things on the wall so I can grow plants along the walls of the terrace as well with that light. So that should be amazing next spring when I, when I start planting.

But yeah, so there was some things which they, they understood had to be done, but didn’t understand why. But all of them, all of the interventions they got in the end and some of them like phase two, we had an air source heat pump and

So I decided to install it on the rear wall of the property.

Because of efficiency, you know, you can connect directly into the building and you know, it’s less energy, but then when everyone saw it they said, that is massive. What is it doing on the rear wall? We need to move it. And it’s not on the ground floor. It’s like elevated because I want to keep the ground floor free.

So it was all designed perfectly. All the drawings were done, the modeling, everything. But then when you see, okay, okay. I don’t agree with you guys, including my wife, but I’ll move it. And I think it was the right decision. So we had to basically figure out how to get it. off the, off the first floor down to the ground and across into the garden and create all of this trenching to kind of link up that air source heat pump to the house.

So it was slightly less efficient than it, than it would have been, but it’s, you know, it’s away from the house and you can’t really see it now. And it was the right decision, So, So sometimes you have to change your plans.

So for people who maybe don’t have a big budget, but they do want to work towards, a wellness approach to their renovation. What would you recommend as like a first step or the most important step?

Planting. That’s, that’s an easy one. Just, just get planting, get into your house because it does the psychological thing. It makes you happy, but it also, pumps out oxygen. It’s the right plants absorb toxins. So that’s, yeah, planting.get more plants.

Jane: I love the, the, the, concept of the lights in the bathroom. I mean, having the different lights for the different times of day, that’s a revelation to me because it’s, that sounds like quite an easy thing to implement, actually.

Kailas: Yeah. So, in terms of. The amount you spend, you can go from getting a, a cheap light from China, which is like 15, 20 quid to a 200 pound fitting. And they essentially, they essentially do the same thing. It’s slightly different. It’s like the 200 pound one is a bit more tuned, but they, they essentially just use wifi to control the color temperature and the intensity.

And then just program it on a curve and it’s pretty straightforward.

Amy: Oh, it’s amazing.

Jane: And thank you so much for your time and for sharing your knowledge and your experience has been

Yeah. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Kailas: Thanks for inviting me. Thank you.