Amy: Welcome to a new series of home truths. We are gonna be talking about going to site and I guess to start off, Jane, I thought I would share something from Instagram. Um, so a couple of days ago I asked what people are most afraid of when I about.

The kind of topic of going to site and this is a direct quote being screwed over by a builder. So much planning and hard work could be dashed by low commitment, poor communication, and quality workmanship tips on navigating this, please. I think that quote sums up the emotions and the feelings that people have around sites and working with the builder. If you are listening today and you’re kind of feeling some of that. You are definitely in the right place. This whole series is gonna be dedicated to this topic and how to navigate that. I should say just as a start off, we love builders. This isn’t gonna be a builder bashing exercise.

And as architects who’ve worked with lots of different builders over the last decade we do think that builders are great. We also though have had lots of chats with people through home notes who have had really difficult experiences and I would say even traumatic. And I guess it’s like how can the experience be so different and is that fear of not knowing which experience you’re gonna get, like is it gonna be okay or is it not gonna be okay? And I think that kind of brings us onto our first topic that we were gonna talk about, which is how to find a good builder. Jane as someone who has literally just found their builder. I would say that maybe finding the right builder is maybe one of the most underestimated parts of a renovation. What are your thoughts?

Jane: Absolutely, you are going into a very close knit relationship with a group of people, and you’re gonna be giving them, you know, they’re looking after your money and turning it into a house, or you know, it changes to your house for you. It’s a big responsibility and I think you can really hear from that Instagram quote.

Just what’s really obvious is just that fear. You know, it is quite kind of, it’s almost an an aggressive kind of being screwed over by somebody as such an emotive thing. And it really goes to the heart of that worry and that fear. And I guess that’s what we’re talking about today is just how can you find those good contractors that we know are out there?

And how do you avoid people who are, you know, let’s be honest, are. At best, chaotic and not very good at, you know, doing their job. And at worst, you know, actively trying to, scam people out of money. As we said, we’ve got a long history of working with amazing contractors who really change people’s lives and, do amazing things for them.

But it’s about how to find the right match and how to make sure that you’re not making mistakes and finding those people that are gonna really help you on your project. So what do you think we should chat about first?

Amy: I guess one thing I thought we should start with is kind of to qualify the right builder, because I think sometimes it is that case of finding the right one for the type of project you’re doing. I wanted to talk about that, but I also kind of feel like, should we set the scene about, I think often a lot going on for builders that we don’t realize as, as a homeowner. So like the typical resi builder. Has a lot of pressure already on them, and I thought maybe we should talk a little bit about what is the reality of trying to build homes this country for the builder from their perspective.

Jane: I think that’s a great place to start because it really, puts it all in context, doesn’t it? And I think when we talk about handing over, massive sums of money to a company to do something that’s quite risky for you. We have to bear in mind that the builder or contractor only gets a small proportion of that because the majority will go on labor costs for subcontractors and materials.

Materials are very expensive and I think. What we’ve seen over the past few years is with the price rises, it’s easy to think like, oh gosh, that’s extravagantly priced and that builder’s having a laugh or something. It’s not. Material prices have gone up to such an extent that we have just seen prices drive up massively, and it’s really good to bear that in mind that the builder is trying to organize a project that has many different moving parts to it.

Really, every project’s totally different and they’re trying to put a figure on lots of unknowns because when you are renovating, especially existing houses, there’s so many unknowns to a project, whether that’s, access issues,

problems arising with the house, whether that’s clients who’ve changed their mind through the project and what they said, you know, was covered, they didn’t really think was, or they’re adding things in. They’re trying to organize a team of many different people, and those people often have to be booked in and then come to site.

Then, you know, there’s lots of dependencies. They have to come do something, then someone else has to do something and then they come back to site. And then they have to have the materials on site at the right time, and they’re managing payments. It’s a big job. You know, there’s a reason why we have main contractors is because it’s a juggle and they are organizing that process.

And they’re often doing that to make, the business model work. Contracts range from kind of one very small teams that do one project at a time to mid-size, which is, three to four projects at a time.

And then bigger companies that do lots, they’ll have an office and a team and manage different projects, maybe up to 10. So we’re already talking about lots of different types of contractors, but also. Just that it’s a very demanding job, basically. Mm-hmm.

Amy: But I think also it’s interesting ’cause I think you can be tempted to think. It’s not that difficult. Like we’re not trying to invent the wheel, really. Like, you know, you can feel aren’t I just buying the equivalent of, you know, a pair of shoes or something? But actually what we’re doing is designing a bespoke. Thing it is more akin to designing a bespoke car or, something that so many different components are unique to you and to your house it is not a cookie cutter, method. And I think sometimes we forget that actually the thing they’re producing. Is tricky, there are, so many different elements to it and they will all be tailored to you and what you are trying to achieve. So I think that’s also helpful to bear in mind.

Jane: Some of the bigger companies do try and systemize and deliver more of a product, but then that often, you kind of have to know that you’re going into that because there’s much less adaption, you know, you’re kind of, there’s much more restrictions.

I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about where problems can arise. So I, I guess one thing that we’ve found is you talked about the different scales of builders, but maybe builders who are used to being kind of the smaller one, one project at a time, but are wanting to scale.

Amy: I think sometimes when you catch a, a builder at that point, that can be quite a, a difficult time for them because They might have taken on the projects, but maybe the organization and the structure to how they’re organizing those different projects hasn’t been worked out yet.

Jane: I think building on the concept that there’s lots of different types of practices. I think that’s where alignment really comes in. And we talk about this all the time if you know us, but project alignment basically means that. There’s lots of different options out there for different types of contractors and different scales, and you are looking for the person who is not only matched to you in kind of personality, that you get on with ’em, that you trust them, but what they build is aligned with what you want to produce, both in cost and, looks and design detailing.

Method of organizing their works, you know, whether they’ve got an office. It’s all about finding the right fit. And that will be different for every person based on personality and size of job and type of job. So I guess that’s one thing in terms of looking for a contractor is first to work out.

What type of contractor you are even looking for,

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: is, is really hard to work out. And I think in those very kind of just being aware to start looking and realizing what you know, start to see contractors around or different projects that you’ve spoken to friends about. Start looking up contractors.

See, how the different types of project they do are different. you know, once you find somebody you trust, it’s really tempting to just jump with whoever you’ve had a recommendation from. Or, you know, somebody who did a job for your, family somewhere, but a contractor who’s doing, a driveway for example, or has fitted a few bathrooms.

Is not necessarily gonna be the right contractor to take on an extension project. So just bearing that in mind as you’re setting out on your journey to look for people is a really good thing to have at the back of your mind.

Amy: Yeah, absolutely. So to get right into it, where should people actually find builders?

Jane: Well, I think, make a long list is the first advice, what I’ve just spoken about, which is kind of, you know, knowing there’s a contact somewhere and then just saying, right, that’s the person for me. Part of this finding alignment is speaking to a range of different people, and you might want to find those people from different places.

So the first is word of mouth, which is really powerful. You’ve had a recommendation from someone you know. That’s worth, a lot. It doesn’t mean that that’s where your investigations should end, but word of mouth is great. So ask around who’s used contractors, did they like them?

And also I guess this counts as word of mouth. If you’re using designers or other team people like, our structural engineer, was really good in finding recommendations for us. People in the trades know the contractors and have worked with them, so you are getting a recommendation from somebody who’s has a experience of that contractor before, so that’s a really good avenue to look around as well.

The advantage of the professionals is also that they have repeat. Working relationships. It’s not just a one-off snapshot. They will have seen, that contractor grow and change over the years and see whether they are, consistent in what they’re delivering, which is what you want.

I think also there’s spotting builders locally. So if you see a site sign when you’re walking around your neighborhood it’s incredible what you can actually just glean from. How people rock up to site, you know, are they wearing matching t-shirts in the matching van? And you can really, I think, pick up quite a lot from

Yeah, if you pass that construction site on the way to work every day, take a note like what’s happening there? How fast is the build going? Yeah, that’s a really good tip. And you know, you can, Google contractors in your local area as well, because obviously finding someone local to you.

They’re gonna be, more ready to take on the job if they’re working locally already.

Amy: any other places that people can find

Jane: Yeah. So you could look on online platforms and trade bodies. If your builder is a member of a trade body, they’ll be listed on a, trade body website. The Federation of Master Builders, for example, have a list of contractors that you can look up. There’s obviously places like Checker Trades and other sites. To get a good mix. in your long list, have a little bit of a range of all of those options.

So you are making sure that you’re seeing a good breadth of what’s available and start those conversations with, not just people off one of those avenues.

Amy: So would you do in terms of the long list, would you make that list before even contacting anybody and kind of like, how many are we talking

Jane: Okay.

Amy: at the first stage, a long list is quite long. I would say around 10. Because there’s a lot of research you can do before you even get to the point of calling. So checking websites, seeing what type of projects you in the way of wanting alignment. How many of the contractor that are on your list actively do the scale of projects that you are looking to do?

Jane: And that is, you know, straight off the bat, there might be some of those that are too small that don’t have, any. Projects that are of your size or too big, you know, maybe they’re now doing much bigger projects. And again, that wouldn’t necessarily be a good fit.

So do a little bit of desktop research and find out the type of work that they do. Obviously if their recommendations, word of mouth, you can start talking to people who have recommended them, see how they were, what their down points were. You can start making little notes. Having negative comments against contractors is not always a bad thing.

Projects are up and down and they’re difficult. there will always be hiccups. It’s how those contractors deal with those hiccups and how those clients felt at the end of it. So just make a note of all the information you’re receiving and keep a little document for yourself of what you’re finding out.

Amy: Yeah, in some ways you want to know what the tricky things are potentially gonna be. So for example, you know, if somebody says, they didn’t respond to emails, that doesn’t mean you have to cross ’em off the list. It means like, right. You need to talk about the best way of communicating with that builder that works for them.

You know, it might be just picking up the, the phone and calling them.

Jane: Quite often I think homeowners also, when we’ve spoken to people are quite quick to remember painful parts of the project where something went wrong. But if you actually ask how. It was resolved. quite often it’s not the contractor’s fault that that thing happened. And they’ve stepped up and they’ve sorted out, maybe there was a leak, and it caused damage.

These things happen all the time on construction site. But if that contractor was there supporting the homeowner to sort that out and fix it, then that’s the type of information that is actually gonna count in their favor rather than the other way round.

Amy: So if you are looking through your desktop research, what would you cross a builder out if they weren’t, doing the same style of house that you wanted to do, like where would you draw the line? Because I’m also thinking. Smaller scale builders, maybe don’t update their website all the time.

there can be a discrepancy between what they’re actually doing day to day now versus, you know, five years when they, they, they design their website initially.

Jane: Yeah, and quite often the really busy contractors are so popular. They don’t need to update their website. They’re going off word of mouth recommendations. a lot of the contractors we spoke to, I actually said, I really wanna see examples of your work. And they were like, oh, we never bother with the website because, they’re booked up for the next two years.

So why, why would they need to? it’s not about any one part of research being the silver bullet. It’s about more you’re painting a picture, of that. Contractor. So I guess, if they have a website that looks really awful, don’t rule them out.

have that as on the negative side where they haven’t seen any projects yet that I like the look of. They might have moved on, they might be building different things now. So keep them on the list but make a note and, it will build into the picture of which one is gonna be the right fit for you.

I think the next step is to contact them, obviously, to see, are they even open to the scale of project that you’re working to? Are they booked up for two years in advance? there are opening questions just to test the waters. Ask them if they’ve got updated work on their website.

Do they have any, examples of recent work. you’re not asking anything too onerous right now. Again, you’re just trying to find out if they’re willing and able to do a job like yours, and if they are, then you can continue the conversation.

Amy: Absolutely. And when should you be doing that? As in have you got planning? are you three months away from starting on site? Like how, how early can you start the research? Yeah.

Jane: I think you can start as soon as you know what you’re doing. You can do that anytime you want.

Amy: Yep.

Jane: Once you start contacting people, I would say you don’t wanna overburden who you are talking to unless you are a real prospect.

Amy: Yep.

Jane: Yes. you’ve gotta be fairly certain of what the job is.

You’ve got to be fairly certain of what your budget is. So I would say around, you know, once you’ve got your concept maybe you’ve not put planning in yet, but you’re pretty certain of what the job is, that’s a good time to call people and find out, because people can book up.

Years in advance. So you are making connections and warming up that conversation and seeing who’s a viable person and they will be happy with that. But you don’t make the call if you’re like, well, we don’t know if we’re doing a loft,

Amy: Yeah,

Jane: I think get yourself into a place that you can know what you’re asking for.

Amy: Okay, so what I would be interested to know, what would be your red flags? Kind of in those early conversations,

Jane: It depends what they want, right? So I think what I found is that we, we were, so we probably started our contractor conversations about a year ago, as in initial kind of feelers, seeing who was around. a couple of the contractors had jobs nearby.

They were really happy just to pop over, look at the project. Chat about it, meet us, you know, because from their perspective, they’re adding a lead onto their warm list. they want kind of a set of people that they’re keeping warm for the next couple of years. So they were all quite keen to come around and have a chat and at least have a chat on the phone and just explain what they do, where they work.

You know, I would say all of them have a chat with, ’cause you just never know do you, then after that, you may want to be taking a little pause. You know, maybe you’ve not got planning yet.

You might want some more information and also you might be wanting information from them. Examples of built works, they might be able to send over or they might be updating you on, their schedules and timeframes, something like that. We definitely had a few months where we were sorting out the project and then we touch base again and followed up with everyone to say, are you still, are you still interested?

And just to go back to that point you made about red flags I think in the beginning it’s not like one one thing should put you off a contractor It’s more about using lots of different touch points to build a picture of that contractor at this stage so that you can continue the conversation

Amy: So you’ve got your long list what kind of research should you now do?

Jane: So there’s plenty of research that you can do about contractors and desktop research So it’s really good to have a look at the financials See what their company is and go on company’s house just to check what their page looks like there

Amy: what exactly are you looking for on company’s house?

Jane: So you can go and search by the company name the limited company name that they’ve given to you and you can go and look at their filing check that all their filing is up to date meaning that you have to file accounts every year Is all of that up to date just shows that they’re on top of their company admin you can also have a look in the returned account it can show you how much money they have in the bank lots of companies won’t have that much cash flow and won’t have a lot of money in the bank but you want to be looking for over the last kind of three years whether things are changing significantly what is the picture that’s building up over a few years of company’s accounts and does it look stable And the other thing is to just check if that company is very new Has it been dissolved in the past that’s another place that you can look once you are looking at the company you can see who the directors are and the persons of significant control that just means the people that are responsible for the company and if you click on their names You’ll be able to see what previous companies they’ve had or if they have lots of different companies contractors might have a different company to do joinery or they might have a development company that’s totally normal What red flags you’re really looking for is multiple companies that have been dissolved and reopened again by the same person or adjacent people because that really means that they’ve had unsuccessful businesses They might have closed without paying their debts and then just opened up another company And that’s a real red flag

Amy: Yeah. you are saying this kind of multiple businesses is, is a red flag, but if somebody has that has happened once they. That isn’t necessarily something to put you completely off somebody, but maybe to do a bit more investigation.

Jane: I think it’s really valid to you know if this is a long time in the past you know significantly plus 10 years ago and they’ve had a filing accounts ever since and everything’s been fine that seems okay if it was In recent history you might want to be asking them what

Amy: Mm-hmm.

Jane: What went wrong Here The explanation for what happened and also looking at the company age is important because if a company if you know that contractor set up a company within the last two years and doesn’t have any previous companies it really means that company is just Quite young and you will want to get assurances that they have their systems down that they know how to run a contracting company succinctly so that you’re not kind of risking on a very new start that could go wrong

Amy: I guess what I am imagining people are thinking is, does that feel quite invasive or like, how do you have those conversations with. Your potential builder who you, you wanna keep them kind of thing.

I think it’s more about the way that you are asking about things you know I hope you don’t mind but we did look you upon Company’s house and notice that you had a dissolved company you know two years ago Could you just let us like what happened basically

Jane: Yeah, and I guess it’s how they respond to that as well,How willing are they to be transparent? Like that’s, that’s kind of what you’re looking for, right?

Yeah Because you know with the best will in the world things can sometimes go wrong and it’s how you talk about that and how you reassure people that matters If you’re shutting down the conversation and getting defensive that’s not really a good sign

Amy: And who else should you be talking to? Because I guess what I was thinking is it can help togo and see houses that have been finished or that kind of thing. And actually, if you can go and talk to the past clients, that can really help as well. ’cause you can actually talk to them about the experience of working with that builder.

Who else can you kind of talk to

Jane: I guess for contractors that don’t update their website um, we had contractors just like showing us their projects on their phone which was really nice because you know obviously they’re taking pictures as they go along, So they’re like this is the site I’m working on right now This is what we’re doing I really like this that we did then they also offered for us to go and see the sites that they’re currently working on and that was really nice just because you get to go and see a working site the you get to see how it’s kept how messy it is And then also if you can chat to the homeowners on site that’s a really nice thing maybe obviously not the three of you with the contractor there And usually what you’ll find is that people have as we said have good and bad things to say but it’s important to ask about how things were resolved not necessarily what happened

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: I think another thing you know in our digital age it’s really good to Google the company Google the names see if there’s any online presence as we said like one bad experience doesn’t make a bad contractor But if there is you know if their name is being mentioned a lot online in a negative way then that’s another red flag isn’t it that you need to be looking out for

Amy: Yeah. The other thing I wanted to talk about is kind of like, there’s obviously this due diligence with kind of their accounting and their business structure and that kind of thing. How much do you think the kind of soft skills should play into your decision making?

So kind of like, I dunno, the general vibe on the site, The manner at which they talk to you and kind of communicate, like how much did that play into your decisions?

Jane: I think it’s based on your personality isn’t it Having going to a site and seeing kind of a busy happy workforce is obviously a really good sign and that things are happening And I guess that’s why it’s good to keep an eye on things that are happening in your area to see are things progressing I think you’ve got to be careful that you don’t get confused between a nice person and a competent you know operator of a business because obviously we all want to find somebody that is gonna take our worries away and gonna reassure us. They seem to really open and nice but you’ve got to turn on your logical brain as well and say okay I liked them and we had a good rapport and that felt good and now I need to just check that they have the right systems in place to make sure that my project’s not gonna overrun on budget or that it’s not gonna overrun on program you know that they’re running a tight outfit

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: something in place to make that happen

Amy: Yeah, I think actually one of my red flags, is the kind of approach where the builder is like, yeah, yeah. Don’t worry about it. Like

how they deal with queries is up there with how you choose your, your builder.

Jane: I think that’s really important And

Amy: as architects and also as females on site I want to be Informed about what’s going on and I want somebody to be able to talk to me about that And imagining we did in our search for contractors we did meet more of the kind of style of contractor that was just like look this is what we do We do it all the time handle it Don’t worry I don’t really wanna get in a conversation with you that could be just It’s hard to tell as an architect whether there’s a little bit of not wanting to mess with their system they have a system it’s what they do and that’s what they’re delivering And we did meet a couple of people like that. And for us that wasn’t how we wanted to work so we wanted to be involved in how the details were done and the finish And so for us that it wasn’t that they were it was just a different style. They were competent but I was getting the vibe from them that they were like leave me to my job I just want to get on with what we do, so that’s fine. They weren’t for usBut then there is another way of talking which is more like any query or any question you have is just met with don’t worry about it, we’ve got it I’ve sorted it And if you imagine you are having conversations like that before you’ve even got to site when there are problems on site and you really do need to know what’s happened it’s gonna be really hard to get to the bottom of anything or to understand the picture that’s happening if somebody won’t talk to you And I think really I would find that really stressful

and I guess you’re right, like some people are happy to work in that kind of open book. Type way where it is like, okay, we’re, we’re collaborating on this thing. It’s your house, it’s our company and we’re doing this together. And yeah, I, I guess also if your personality is like, do you know what, this is really stressful and I trust you, and you, I just wanna like, hand it over and kind of come back to the finished house, then that, that is gonna, you’re gonna wanna go for a different builder, aren’t you?

Jane: I think even in that scenario when you do want hands off and you’re just like I’m handing the book over Deliver me what you deliver that’s great But they then need to be very prescriptive about what it is that you’re getting

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: I think again where that falls into a negative area for me which is things aren’t clear. So you are asking so how’s that gonna happen, or are you providing this or are you not, and you’re met with just no answers even somebody that does what they do really well and doesn’t want you to get involved needs to be able to answer those questions because otherwise you dunno what you’re paying for You are gonna be paying an awful lot of money but you actually don’t know what’s included or what they’re going to do And so I think if they’re a really good operator And they are delivering a product and they don’t want any interference great But they should be able to back it up with you know information about what they’re providing

Amy: Yeah. And I think we are gonna deal with that in a separate episode. ’cause I think it’s, it’s worth, it’s a big topic, isn’t it? So we will, we will get to that. But one thing we haven’t talked about is insurance and kind of, I guess accreditations and that kind of thing, what should people be looking for with that?

Jane: Yeah so I mean again these are things that we might delve into in more detail but Your contractor will sometimes be a member of an association or have an accreditation and I guess there’s a slight difference between the two quite often Trade associations are kind of membership groups or companies that represent a particular type of trade. They can lobby government or large corporations on behalf of the members. So I’m thinking the Federation of Master Builders for example a contractor could be a member of that That’s really like a voluntary choice and it does show a level of engagement in the industry being a member of one of those bodies requires certain minimum requirements for that. In that situation you do have to be careful that they actually are a member of the trade association that they’re saying they are It’s quite easy to stick a label on the van you know 10 years ago when you were a member and not have checked that out and you can check the registers. So just go on and check And I think again it’s about building that picture of They said they were part of this association and they’re not and that isn’t a no go zone That’s just builds a picture. And then the other thing that is different to that is accreditations. So that’s where businesses or contractors prove competence in certain systems. So that might be that as a trade person you need an accreditation to be able to sign off your electrical work or your plumbing work and so that’s more about a badge of competence and so if you Google those accreditations you can check that they’re also a member of the different bodies that they say they are that’s usually at the subcontractor level but that’s the difference between those two different types

Amy: Amazing.

so I guess the next stage is inviting the contractor around so they can kind of meet you, but also they get to see the project and highlight any potential issues that you haven’t thought about.

Jane: I think there’s obviously a few different meetings that might happen. So in the beginning maybe it’s just like a here we are get to know you kind of

And once you get your documentation together you’ve got planning permission, you are you’re nearly ready to Commit to a contractor and get a quote from them I think that meeting where you’re really gonna be asking them more specific questions about how they work and the type of way that they’re gonna be running your project. So it’s always good to have a list of types of questions that you might ask in that meeting So we could go through a few of the different types of questions you might ask

Amy: I think the one that I think is really important is who’s actually on site day to day, Because it might be that you are meeting the main person, but the actual foreman into your site will be a different person. And I think it’s important to kind of work out how that company is structured mainly so that you know who your main point of contact is.

How about you? what would you go with?

Jane: Yeah I think company structure is a really good one because as we said previously the way in which how many people there are it and how big the company is will really give you a quite different experience It’s very different working with a single main contractor who is including subcontractors but is going to be on your project as the foreman for the whole time and not do any quite a lot of contractors will only do one project at a time that is a very specific way of working Whereas you can go right up to the other end where as we said there’s a big team that might even have an admin office where they’re fielding calls from you and they’re organizing invoices for you, and that’s a very different feel working with a much larger fit out and maybe it will feel slightly less personal and also that the person who’s actually on site day to day like you said might not be the person that you’ve spoken to. So if that’s the case I would really want to meet that person because they’re your go-to and they’re the person who’s gonna be probably the person you’ll speak to more than anybody else for the next six months. So it’s important to understand what’s going on

Amy: Understanding how they work and how the different teams are organized over multiple sites is really important. And yeah, I think communication and language is really key as well.

Because I do think that we’ve worked really successfully with builders who don’t like email particularly but really respond to meeting in person, having a chat, bashing out all the issues.

Then we write it up in a kind of like, this is what we talked about,

Jane: Yeah

Amy: communication isn’t happening via email, it’s happening in person. I guess WhatsApp has become more popular as a way of being able to track conversations, I guess.

Jane: Email is quite formal and it requires going on a bit of a bigger screen to like maybe write whereas contractors can chat on WhatsApp really easily but yeah how do they I get you’ll get to know that a little bit before before anyway just how they’ve communicated I think we were trying to contact a contractor for this project and kept on asking him if he had if we had the correct email address because he’d never replied to a single email like not even anything. And we kept on saying are you sure He is yeah that’s the email And in a way it would’ve been better if we’d have just said do you not like talking about email You know but for us again we’re very much like getting everything in an email type of people so

Amy: Yes.

Jane: That felt a bit you know you’ve I’ve never even had a single one was a bit of an indicator but yeah and as on top of that with communication is so when we’re on site how are we going to communicate, are we gonna have how do you like to do it I think it’s not necessarily saying what you want but understanding what’s ideal for them because that’s probably what’s gonna happen how do you normally do it And it might be like we have a meeting once a week where we just run through progress and we talk about any issues that have come up or it’s just more fluid than that. Or it’s every day you know how do they normally want to interact with you and who will be Who’s the ultimate person who signs off stuff because in that scenario that Amy was just talking about where you have a site foreman but the decisions are being made elsewhere quite hard when you’ve agreed something and then you are you don’t know whether it’s been okayed or not

Amy: yeah.

Jane: Just understanding so do they have to email you and you’ll say that’s okay

They might say don’t talk to the site foreman If there’s anything to discuss you have to talk to me. It’s about the clear lines of decision making and communication

Amy: Yeah. But I think just stuff like that if you are renovating with someone else as well. You need to make sure that you are singing from the same hymn sheet as well. Because if you are saying different things to a contractor at different times like that, that can really derail a project.

Jane: I think another one is when you are it’s very easy to talk to subcontractors and you say

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: The plumber’s there and you’re like oh you know what we’ve changed our minds We’re gonna put this there and move that And the plumber’s yeah that’s fine And then word gets back to the main contractor and he is you’ve not okayed this with me that’s a different price. So it’s knowing where the communication needs to be And again it must be awful for contractors who turned up one day and the one person said oh yeah I’m fine with that that looks great. And then the other person turns up and they’re like no we need to change

Amy: Why is that there? Yeah, definitely. other things to talk about when interviewing builders is how they wanna be paid. I feel like that’s quite a big one. Yeah.

Jane: there are like several different ways of being paid And again we can talk about this more but it’s good at this point to just check roughly that you are aligned in how you want that to happen and it’s not too early to ask that In fact it’s good to ask that early doors just so that you understand what’s coming

Amy: would you ask them questions like around items that you might be getting yourself? So the client supplied items is what we call it, but like kitchens and bathrooms and that kind of thing. Would you talk to them about how do you normally work? are we getting it?

Are you getting it? Is it too early to talk about that?

Jane: I don’t think so because they’ll know

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: Contractors will either be like oh no we don’t get involved in anything like that. You do all the ordering for all the internal fit out Or they’ll be like actually we find it easier not to be waiting not knowing whether things are gonna turn up or not We prefer to keep that in-house. So I think you’ll get an easy quick answer and it’s worth just setting expectations

I think one thing that I don’t think we have actually asked people in the past, but I wonder what you think. I wonder if asking the builder kind of What’s the thing that most commonly derails a project? Like what do you find the hardest thing

Amy: Because I think what that gets to is like, these are our bug bears and how to work the best with that contractor. And I think it would be quite illuminating. I might write that one down. It’s just occurred to me.

Jane: thinking that we haven’t asked that because again it’s a really personal thing. Most of the reasons why things go wrong on site is often a breakdown of communication. So you are unwittingly acting in a way that’s quite stressful for your contractor or doing things in a way that they don’t find easy to work with then that’s gonna cause a problem and it’s best to just it’s nice to be curious isn’t it. And it’s nice to be thinking of the experience from both sides

Amy: So I guess we are gonna be talking about getting prices next and quotes and the tendering process. I guess, like what are we saying as the main takeaway?

Jane: Building the picture There’s lots of different parameters and whether you can trust that person whether they’re aligned project wise whether you’re aligned in a personal project management way. You’ve got to really be considering on all of those points And I think maybe the main takeaway is that you’re not gonna be aligned on every single thing and some are more important than others if there’s been multiple closed companies you know that would be a reason not to go with that contractor But on the other hand If you don’t find the right person right away you can keep looking

We’ve spoken to people who have taken months find the right person that felt right and that ticked all

Amy: Mm.

Jane: their boxes in terms of all of those different aspects I think it just does take time and just to realize that it’s a process and a way doing it in that gradual way, getting to know them and building up your information about them means that you can talk to lots of people you know maybe even 10, 15 contractors before you find somebody that feels aligned enough to get a price from them

Amy: So basically don’t feel rushed into it. ’cause I do think there’s, there is just this inherent pressure that’s kind of baked in that, you know, a good builder is like gold dust and you have to kind of book them in and you know, it, you can get into a bit of a frenzy about it actually. But

Jane: Yeah

Amy: how do you think that is true?

Do you think that there is a lack of good builders around or available.

It feel like that for you when you were looking?

Jane: It’s funny that you mention that cause we’re literally in that do we push the button like right now moment or do we wait a bit longer. But I think it does is a scary process pressing go And usually Projects take ages to get off the ground don’t they And getting planning and everything else that in a way there is this feeling like oh we can’t wait another six months or we can’t wait another year that’s a natural feeling. And I think you do need a bit of energy to push you over the line you know

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: are about to tip your world upside down. So you know there’s never really a good time to do that I think there’s a difference between being nervous about pressing go and feeling just I don’t think we’re ready to like actually having things that feel very concerning or worrying or mistrust about what’s happening and being pressured to pay deposits or with people that you’re not totally on board with do need to take a step back and think okay what’s the worst that can happen if we don’t say yes to this Is that we wait

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: But we’re in a we’re in a really strong position now because we’ve come so far it won’t take as long to get to that same place with another contractor So I think you do have to just sense check when you are

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: that pressure that it’s not artificial in any way

Amy: Well, I remember you saying it. It is better to put it on hold and sort problems out than to be on site having to face all the problems, but with no roof, for example,

Jane: Six months still waiting in your house being slightly annoyed that you haven’t started your project yet

is a lot different to six months in a house with no back wall

I guess look at it that way I guess.

Amy: Okay, we are gonna leave it there. but tune in next week. we would love to know how you are feeling about, going to site. If you are on site at the moment, how is it going

we’d love to know. So head over to Instagram and yeah, share your, experiences with us. That would be amazing. Um, any other things you wanna say, Jane

Jane: That’s it. Looking forward to the next episodes.

Amy: Me too.

Okay. See you later.

Jane: Bye.

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