Welcome to our special mini series called Home Truths. We’re gonna be talking about some common misconceptions in the world of renovating, bust some budget myths, and basically shine the light on how to avoid a stressful renovation. If you’re thinking about renovating or about to start, or you’re right in the middle of it, this is for you.

Amy: Did you know that nearly one in 10 British couples split during house renovations and 12% of couples consider divorce? It’s a pretty grim way to start a podcast, but today we wanna talk about something that doesn’t get talks about that much, and that’s your relationship during renovating. what would you say are some of the reasons behind these tricky stats?

Jane: I think it’s. Renovation is something that encompasses so many different aspects of our lives and brings it together into this very stressful experience. And you think it’s about kind of updating your home. but it, it’s also, you know, obviously a lot about money. and there’s large amounts of money which are involved, which is quite stressful in itself.

Um, you’re doing something that’s slightly out of your comfort zone and that you’ve never done before, and everyone reacts differently to that. So. Know, people can become different people. And under that stressful en environment, um, you are having to find people and trust people that you’ve never worked with before.

Um, and in the midst of that, there’s this kind of pressure that. You know, you are missing a trick or that your neighbors did it better, or that somehow what you are doing isn’t kind of the right thing. And then it’s also, you know, a lot of it is tied into how we deal with money and, and what we feel is appropriate to spend money on.

Um, but also. You are making a house for your future. So that also brings into play what is the future? You know, are you gonna have kids? Is this a house for just you or is it for a partner? Or are your aging parents gonna live with you? So there’s so many kind of, dreams, aspirations, people are often building for this future life, which is maybe idealistic, maybe too idealistic, maybe.

We always imagine that idea of doing our house, and then that would be the moment where we invite all our friends round and our life suddenly becomes like perfect and all the toys will be, have their place to go, you know? So we’re bringing so much into this one process. and it just,

puts your relationship under strain in that process.

Amy: But also think, um, You’ve, you’ve got this landscape where you have this mix of stories that you get from your neighbors, from your, your friend’s auntie or you know about all the things that went wrong and all the things, you know, builders going MIA or cost going over and like, I think we are even walking into quite a, a dark picture already.

Jane: Yes. if you are. If you’re lucky, then everything goes to plan and it will still be stressful because of all the things that we just said. But potentially some things could go pretty, pretty badly and, and that will, obviously put this other layer of stress and strain on a relationship as you try to navigate those difficulties together.

Amy: Yeah, I think, um. We’re kind of talking like it’s this really big melting pot of stuff. And I guess what’s interesting is there are kind of common conflicts that emerge, which are around control, around money, around taste. And like you say, also different ways of managing anxiety. But I think you, you mentioned earlier about two kind of dynamics that you see play out. Do you wanna talk a bit about that?

Jane: Yeah, I think architects always joke, don’t they, that they are kind of like marriage counselors. Um, but you know, you are managing that process of two people trying to realize or decide their, their kind of wishes and wants and, and needs. Um, so I think over the years we’ve seen a lot of different relationships, haven’t we, and, and how they play out.

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: And I think there’s kind of two main dynamics that we see. So. The first is the person who’s like totally on it in terms of the renovation. They’re really the driving force of what’s gonna happen. They’re pushing the project forward, and they have a partner who’s, in agreement, but maybe taking more of a backseat who’s, who’s kind of like, yes, yes, that sounds good.

You know, more on the receiving end of, of the project. And in that dynamic, I guess what can happen is sometimes. The person who’s being more passive in, in the process is kind of agreeing and letting the project carry on right up until the point when the contractors give their prices, which is very late in the kind of planning stage, and they’re just about to go to site, and at that point they’ve suddenly got laser focus like, oh my gosh.

This is happening. this seems like a lot of money, like it’s all kind of come to a head and it’s at that point where they decide to properly engage and then go through all the decisions that have already been made, you know, from their partner with their architect or designer and all these things that the other person feels like.

They’ve diligently been working hard to sort out. All of a sudden all that’s come under scrutiny and things can get unpicked and unraveled and decisions. they want to make decisions again. And is this the best way? Is there another way of doing it? Surely there’s a cheaper way so. It’s really hard at that moment for both sides of that picture, isn’t it?

Because

Amy: Yeah,

Jane: person just feels really overridden, like, they’ve not paid attention all this time, and now we’re having to talk about it all over again. And for the other person they, they probably just. busy and they, they’ve not really had their head in it. And, and that feels very shocking all of a sudden to be like, all right, we’re gonna do this giant thing, and I haven’t really got my head in the game.

So that’s one. And, and that can be quite problematic, can’t it?

Amy: It can unravel a project quite quickly, actually at a very key moment.

Jane: Yeah.

Amy: but what would you say is the other

Jane: So the other, the other dynamic is where you have two people who are. In it together. you know, both people are present, they’ve both got ideas. It’s exciting. there’s a lot of energy. And then as decisions start to get made, I. You realize that there’s, there’s two sets of priorities in the relationship and quite often this gets played out as, as one person being a bit frivolous, and maybe interested in some kind of aesthetics or, or kind of key things that they’d like to include.

And the other person kind of acts a bit more like holding the purse strings and it’s. It’s natural that there would be those two characters in the process and sometimes they can flip, you know, it’s not that one person plays that role all the time, it is like this dynamic that happens. And I think what’s difficult about that, especially when you have different ideas, is that one person kind of pretends that they don’t have requirements or that their requirements somehow aren’t expensive or costly

When actually you both have things that you want and need out of the process. And it can be hard to work out whose ideas get taken forward. And you can, in that situation, you can very much hit loggerheads. Um, and it often comes with style as well. Sometimes someone will take the lead on how things are gonna look, and someone else is gonna take a lead on how things function.

But quite often those two things. One is deemed more relevant or more necessary than the other when they actually, they’re, they’re just wishes and wants, and you need to somehow manage who’s gonna get what they want in the project.

Amy: Yeah. Well, I think when it is, is the aesthetic side. It feels unnecessary and often.

Jane: Hmm.

Amy: adding costs where you don’t necessarily need it. So I think that’s, that’s the rub as well, isn’t it? When it comes down to budgets again.

Jane: Do you remember the project where there was. Two halves of the, the puzzle and, one side of the partnership was thinking that things were quite frivolous or that everything had come back at quite expensive. But then they wanted a sauna and it was deemed that the sauna was just like the most important thing, but for some reason that wasn’t, that wasn’t considered, um, an extravagance.

Do you remember that?

Amy: necessity.

Jane: Yeah. Um, but it’s just interesting the way that it plays into your dynamics as a relationship, doesn’t it? And really kind of turns up the volume on things that are already already there.

Amy: So you might be thinking, this is quite grim listening, uh, if you’ve got this far, but we’ve talked about the dynamics and the issues that maybe people are facing. Are there any strategies that we can talk about towards preventing that relationship breakdown?

Jane: Absolutely. Um, we can, we can talk through a few different kind of strategies and tips that we’ve developed over the years. So the first one is about anxieties and worries, and I think when we used to start with, our clients in a project, it’s a really key question actually, just to work out. What are they worried about in the project ahead of them and for, you know, and the answers are varied and different, but it can just bring to the surface some underlying anxieties that will come up in different ways throughout the project.

And that might be for some people, it’s that they’re going to get. You know, tricked or done over by, the professionals that they’re working with, that’s just a deep seated kind of worry that somehow they’re gonna be taken advantage of for other people, it’s just, you know, parting with the sheer amount of money that it’s gonna take.

Uh, for other people. It’s just having the extra load of, things happening, answering emails, just, that kind of admin side that they’re gonna be overwhelmed. So if you can actually sit down and just share what each of you is actually worried about, really, when you think deep down when I think about being nervous about starting this, what is the thing that worries me?

It can just help the other person really understand where you are coming from, because. It will come up in lots of your conversations and decisions, and you’ll be able to see it in your partner and say, you know what, I know that you’re worried that somebody’s gonna take advantage of us, but actually, we could do X, Y, z to kind of make sure that doesn’t happen.

Um, it’s just really nice to be aware of it and, and to kind of play to your strengths because. Your worries and anxieties aren’t gonna be the same. So if one person’s really nervous about talking to the contractors and the other person’s really worried about the money, you can work out ways to share and divvy that up so that you are, you are both acting to your strengths and and supporting each other.

Amy: Yeah, and I think that is a really, key point actually, is identifying things that you can do and steps you can take to kind of mitigate those stresses. So

Jane: Yeah.

Amy: for example, you’ve got a bit of a tricky relationship with your neighbor, I. And you are really stressed about renovating and what that’s gonna do to that situation. Maybe you, hatch a plan of going round, sitting down with them, talking it through, or offering them, you know, the builder isn’t gonna start till nine. like you can have those conversations and maybe it’s your partner that deals with that, that

Jane: Yeah.

Amy: You know, you can really get into quite a lot of detail of ways to, meet those fears head on, which I think is also really helpful.

Jane: That’s so interesting, isn’t it? Because also the person who’s worried about the neighbors is gonna be the person who’s probably most, has the most anxiety about going around to talk to them.

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: And the person who’s not bothered is it’s literally not gonna enter their head. We’d be like, why do we need to talk to our neighbors?

We’re just gonna crack on. So we, without having that conversation, you know. It’s no skin off, probably one person’s nose to go and do that, and it will really make a massive difference to the other person. So you need to get that stuff out in the open, don’t you?

Amy: Yeah, absolutely. But I think what you said about identifying your strengths is also really key. ’cause I think obviously you are both bringing to the table. Your own personality, your own skillset, and just actually talking about the fact that it’s a big job and, dividing and conquering is, is definitely a good strategy.

So brainstorming who’s good at what. Um, I think what’s interesting here is that often if you are the ideas person, that doesn’t seem like. A particularly, um, appreciated skill, but it actually is. And if you are, the ideas person being supported and giving them kind of the time and the space to do their thing is, is really powerful.

And I think, you kind of wanna nurture each other’s skills and if someone is like a spreadsheet nerd, like get them involved in the budget, you know, you can really play to each other’s strengths.

Jane: Yeah, for that dynamic where there’s one person that’s maybe more. Kind of involved, uh, or got the head in it than the other. You could devise like, well, how can you contribute if I find all the things that we want to do and you research, which is the best one? You know, maybe you, you are really good at reading reviews and, and getting into the more kind of technical aspects, then that’s a good division of labor.

Um, and that’s something that used to come up all the time on the podcast, isn’t it? That there’s somebody, the ideas person doesn’t get appreciated until it’s all done and dusted, and then all they get is their partner saying. The house is actually really nice. Thanks. It’s really good. Well done. You know, and it’s like, yes, I told you it was gonna be good, you know, and I’ve invested so much in, into this process, so, yeah.

Um, I suspect that it might be, um, the ideas person that’s listening to our podcast, so you could get your partner to listen to it and just say, look, it’s a really, it’s a valid thing you’re adding. Potentially value to your life and to your home and to your family, or to the value of your house.

It shouldn’t be underestimated the kind of value that brings.

Amy: But I guess it does go both ways, doesn’t it? So

Jane: Yeah.

Amy: are the person who is, in charge of the budget. Like you say, the ideas person can often feel like, oh, you are, stopping my creativity, or, you know, you’re making it really difficult. But actually they’re also providing a really, really valuable. Skill in ensuring that you, you don’t end up at the end in kind of financial ruin or,

Jane: Yes.

Amy: And like that is a real, um, reality that you want to avoid. So I think both appreciating each other’s skill and what you’re bringing to it is kind of what we’re trying to, to get at, I guess.

Jane: because if you’re constantly pulling, you can end up being so polarized because. The more one person digs in about the cost, the more the other person’s pulling away with the ideas and you villainize each other when actually to come closer together, the person with the ideas has to show the money person that they’re.

Thinking about how much things cost and you need to just exemplify that to the other person to allow them to not have to be the, the no person. ’cause that’s not nice either, is it? When you are kind of forced into a situation where you, you can’t dream or, or have any ideas ’cause you just feel like you’re having to reign the project in all the time.

Amy: that’s where the app comes in, isn’t it? Because

Jane: yeah.

Amy: you can say to the budget person, okay, I really like this idea and I really like this idea. And I really like this idea. Which one do you like?

Jane: Yeah,

Amy: the, the budget person can say, do you know what? Let’s put them all in. See how they, they tally up.

And

Jane: yeah.

Amy: like you say, instead of being polarized, you, you’re kind of becoming side by side

Jane: Mm-hmm.

Amy: you are, you are fixing and solving a problem. ’cause I think that’s the problem when you’re coming head to head,

Jane: Yes.

Amy: just, it’s like my way or your way.

Jane: They all kind of come in at the same level, like, I want to paint the room peach, or I want to add this like fancy skylight. They’re both requests, but they’ve got different values associated with them.

And until you actually work out the cost of what those things are, you can’t really weigh one up against the other. Um, and I think it’s doing that process, having a space to kind of be honest that you both have. Wishes and dreams for the for the space. Putting all of those into the app and then doing the work to work out well, how much each of those things actually gonna cost and how much value are they gonna bring to us?

Because something you want to do, you might suddenly realize, you know what, it’s not that important because it’s using up a large amount of our budget and I’m not that bothered. Whereas using a color or painting a room, you know, it will bring me a lot of joy, but it’s not a big expense.

Amy: Yeah. Well that’s what I was gonna say actually about, um, being honest about your goals. ’cause I

Jane: Yeah.

Amy: the goals you have for the project will dictate how you make decisions and also Whether you see the renovation as a a success or not. And I think some are obvious and others are less so.

So I think trying to be honest with yourself and your partner doing the same about what’s driving you will really, I guess, give you more understanding about where each other are coming from. But I think to help you with that, I guess. We would kind of advise thinking about it as physical goals and personal goals.

So maybe physical goals are, you know, creating more room, better comfort, more connection to the garden, less maintenance. And the personal goals are, to add value or make money on your house or to use your own creativity or something. Or like you were saying earlier, is it about having your friends around and big dinner parties and things?

So I think, um. really important to articulate that if you can.

Jane: Yeah,

Amy: Um,

Jane: It takes a little bit of time to actually work out what your goals are because I think sometimes we are not honest with ourselves about what it is that we want to achieve. And, um, you, you’re kind of saying to yourself, oh, it is, it’s just about having extra space.

But you haven’t, you haven’t really been honest with yourself about the fact that you would really like a bit of a. A wow home, that, you know, is kind of just a personal kind of folly to, to do something creative or, or nice, for yourself. and if you can kind of see where each other are coming from, again, it underlies all our.

Decision making throughout the project. And if you, if you can be honest with your partner, then you’re kind of like, okay, well yes, that does fit your goal. Um, does it, can we find a place where it fits both our goals?

Amy: I think playing into that as well, Jane is also just identifying existing rifts. ’cause I

Jane: Mm,

Amy: you are finding hard in your partnership currently is likely to be magnified during the pressure of a renovation. So I think. I hate to say it, but go back to the last time you had a fight and what was that about?

And you know, how are you reacting both reacting to the stress or what are the cycles that you kind of get stuck in? Because I think we, we all do, don’t we? And um, they might feel minor and you can feel like you can handle them, but they are causing kind of meltdowns, like in, I don’t know, but if, if there are, if there are cycles that you guys are stuck in currently, it is worth actually just taking some advice on that particular dynamic, even before you start renovating. Because I think you’re just, you’re about to step into that melting pot of stuff. And so actually getting equipped to, to deal with that would really be helpful.

Jane: Yeah, you don’t want to turn up the volume on

Amy: Mm.

Jane: existing problems. Um, they’ll be easier to tackle before you’ve been through the gauntlet.

Amy: Yeah. I guess the

Jane: And

Amy: thing that I wanted to say was that actually, it might sound hard after all of what we’ve just said, but also to enjoy the process. So, you know, it is a temporary thing. It won’t last forever. And if you can take some time out to make plans and have these conversations, it’s really gonna pay dividends in your renovation.

Jane: Yeah, it is a privilege, isn’t it? If you are kind of have the ability to make your home what you want it to be, regardless of whether you’re on a big budget or a small budget, it’s, um, you know, it’s. Improving your life and, and your home life. And to, if you can put that work in upfront, it is massively going to pay dividends, for you both.

And hopefully, as we said, get you to what you consider has been a success at the end of the project. Um, because without identifying that first, you won’t know if you feel like it’s been a joyful experience or that you got what you wanted out of it. So yeah, be positive and try and.

Try and make it what you, what you both want it to be.

Amy: Absolutely.

Thanks so much for being with us and stay tuned for next week.