Amy: Welcome to our special mini series called Home Truths. We’re gonna be talking about some common misconceptions in the world of renovating, bust some budget myths, and basically shine the light on how to avoid a stressful renovation. If you’re thinking about renovating or about to start, or you’re right in the middle of it, this is for you.

Hi everyone. Today we are gonna be talking about you. You’ve got a clear vision of the type of home you want to create. You’ve seen it on Instagram, on Pinterest. Your taste is on point, and you are really frustrated because everyone is saying your budget isn’t enough to get you what you want.

You could be what is classed as high design, low budget a phrase we’ve literally just coined for anyone who’s out there, it’s not a known thing. But Jane, I guess before we go into that, I, it would be good to talk about, broadly speaking, what are the different types of projects and how do people know if they are in the high design, low budget, uh, category.

Jane: So it would be helpful to just lay the landscape of what the different types of projects are. So there’s three that we’re gonna talk about. The first one is really where you want extra space, and you are on a budget you know you’re not really gonna go for all the extra bells and whistles.

You’re gonna keep it really efficient and you want to just get, to your house or the upgrade to your house and you’re not gonna complicate it too much. And in that situation, you could go to, what we would call a permissions architect and get some basic drawings that show the building control regulations and make sure that everything fits and get planning permission and then you would work with your contractor to, to make that space for you. So that’s option one. It’s quite efficient because your contractor will fill in the gaps and the details, they might use their suppliers and, but really you, you’re leaving it in their hands to deliver you the most cost effective project you can.

Amy: Just to add to that, I think it’s, it’s kind of classically it’s the loft extensions. You know, when you need that extra bedroom or you need, uh, the room on the back,

Yeah. It’s about space more than anything.

Jane: yeah. then if we go to the other end of the spectrum, we’ve got the bespoke project. So that’s where you might hire more of what we would call a design led architect, who’s gonna draw up something completely bespoke. Maybe they’ll be looking at bespoke details, materials, And in that type of project, you have the architect or designer to actually design the thing, but you will also probably need them to, deliver that project on site because it is bespoke and they will need to be there to talk to the contractor. they’re gonna be helping the contractor to understand the drawings and deliver that project for you.

Amy: yeah, I guess, um, projects that kind of tend to be in this, category are ones where there’s multiple things going on. So there might be a side infill, there might be a loft extension, there might be a reconfiguration of the ground floor. You know, there’s usually multiple components.

Jane: So they’re like the two ends, if you like, of the spectrum of projects I guess what we find is that there’s a third option, which is your on a tight budget, and you can’t afford to go completely down the bespoke route because that involves, hiring an architect for the whole duration of your project. And, you know, having a project that’s maybe a bit more expensive to build because it’s bespoke, but you also are interested in design and you have very specific requirements for what you want to do, so you don’t really feel like the, the option one is really fitting the bill for you, so you are kind of in the middle.

You want the best of both worlds, and I would say that’s a very kind of commonplace to be. What do you think Amy?

Amy: Yeah, absolutely. We were going through podcast episode guests who fit into each category, and I think mainly everybody, as in I. Option three, aren’t they really? You know, a as Jane says, there’s a spectrum and they might be a little bit closer to one end or the other end, but, there’s a lot of people.

Jane: Yeah, well also because they’re the people that we resonate with and look for projects that are trying to do something maybe a little bit different, but on a budget. So there’s a reason why probably most of our guests

Amy: Yeah, that is.

Jane: So Jane, I’ve got a question. um, if you are in route one. Can you try to just change it by adding, you know, going to your contractor and saying, actually, I really love what you do, but I wanna add these extra things.

Amy: Or if you wanna go to the bespoke one and say, do you know what, I really love what you do, but can you make it cheaper? What are the problems associated with kind of trying to change the route

Jane: I guess if we’re looking at the, the efficiency route, the reason why it’s efficient and, value for money is that that provider, that contractor is set up in a bit of a system. So if you try to add something bespoke there, what can often happen is that, well, one, it might just not happen because we had that on one podcast episode, didn’t we?

Amy: With Tishna in episode 37, she’d gone to a loft company and she did the right thing. Spoke to them early on and said, you know, I want to use this environmental insulation. And they were kind of saying, yes, yes.

Jane: You know, maybe that’s possible. And the result was really that it just never happened because, was asking them to change their system in a way that they didn’t really know or didn’t want to do. So it just didn’t materialize. And I guess the other thing that can happen is that if you try and mess with that efficient system, it can kind of just derail the project.

So perhaps you are on site and or you are kind of choosing a different supplier for something that they’re not used to dealing with. Things can fall apart and you might face delays or there might be big gaps where they’re saying, well, you know, this supplier that you’ve suggested has not worked out. It can just put a bit of a spanner in the works because, they’re moving fast from one project to the other and they’re not set up for this kind of bespoke requirements.

Amy: I think also those extras become more expensive than they would if you were going with a different option. I think because it’s out of their comfort zone there there is an extra charge that goes with it just to cover the unknowns for them. So I think that’s something to to be wary of too.

Jane: Yeah, so it doesn’t always work out that well to try and change the system when you are in the efficiency, in the Zone.

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: But we’ve also seen the other way, which is, you know, I want the high design bespoke thing, but I want it cheaper. And in that situation, it’s quite tempting to get your architect to draw up a design for you. And you, you are enjoying everything. You know? You’re like, yes, yes, yes. This all looks great. Then you’re getting your prices back from your contractor and you’re like, woof. All of this is looking quite pricey. And then you decide, you know what, we’re not gonna use the architect on site,

So you’re saying to your builder, we’ve got this quite bespoke design and we’re not using our architect now. Can you make that happen? And I guess the problem that people fall into in that situation is that,

there are contractors that are specifically, set up to work on bespoke projects. Like that’s what they do, that’s what they enjoy because it’s a different challenge each time, but it’s quite hard to, to really, you know, get into and understand everything without the person who’s designed it to facilitate and organize that, for you, because quite often the suppliers, the different materials, the different suppliers, the windows, the doors, they’ll all be coming from places which the contractor’s never worked with before.

Because that’s the, that’s the aim of the game your architect has all this knowledge and communications and they’ll be the conductor behind the scenes, making all of this come

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: your contractor, and, and it’s a team. They work as a team to deliver that bespoke ness. And if you take the architects out of the mix, then it’s hard for the contractor to take on that responsibility of delivering all those bespoke details.

Amy: And also you have to matchmake, don’t you? The kind of architect you go for will produce a certain design, which then needs a certain kind of contractor to build it, which is kind of what you’re saying.

You, you can’t really take this bespoke project and just expect anyone to be able to build it, which might be shocking for people to realize. And we’re not talking about people’s capability. You know, builders I think are very optimistic, positive characters.

But you can’t expect someone to almost like change the whole of their company structure to facilitate something that’s completely different to what they normally do.

You need to choose the camp that you are comfortable with, but then don’t try to change it.

Jane: Or work with their strengths. Yeah. 

Amy: So you are in the middle camp. What do you do? What are the options?

Jane: I think there’s a fundamental head space that you need to kind of get into, if you’re wanting the best of both, then it’s really about taking responsibility for organizing the extra work that needs to come into play.

If you are either trying to get the high design on a low budget or the low budget on a high design, whichever way you are altering those two pathways it’s about you taking responsibility for the changes that you’re gonna make, which we can talk about in a minute. But if you, just broadly speaking, if we talk about Camp one, the risk and the responsibility is largely with a contractor. They are delivering you something. They’re organizing the suppliers, you know, they have their systems like they are in charge, and the other end, it’s really the architect who’s taking responsibility for all those. Different suppliers and different materials and the vision that they’ve created. So if you are gonna do a halfway house, it’s just acknowledging that whatever you are taking from those two people You are actually gonna have to step up and take responsibility for that. And that’s where you get the best of both worlds. That’s how you kind of break the system and get the thing you want. Uh, which is the high design on a budget, which is kind of the impossible, is that you’re gonna have to put your own work into that.

And that requires time and energy. But if you are up for the challenge, it’s definitely possible. And we’re gonna talk about some ways in which you can do it, but I think fundamentally. You can’t get it for nothing.

You’ve got to be proactive. And just realizing that you are, you are taking a little bit of risk and responsibility.

And if you can get that in, if you can get your mindset into that, then I think it just helps with feeling like you’re not kind of fighting against the system because it would be quite easy to be like, well, why can’t they do this? Why can’t they use my supplier? Or why hasn’t that worked? Or why can’t, um, they hand over the project and the contractor do it?

You could. It could feel like quite a negative process, but if you see yourself as facilitating this extra bonus, which is like, you know, either adding extra design or you know, reducing costs, then, then it’s just a much better place to come from when you are approaching this method.

Amy: I guess just a caveat. I mean, they can do those things, but it just costs money, doesn’t it? I think that’s, that’s the point. If you are trying to make people do things outside of what they normally do, you will need to pay for that. And so it is about.

Jane: it is money, like it could happen with money, but I think the biggest risk is that it just not happening

Amy: Yeah.

Amy: Or not coming out well.

Jane: Or how you wanted. I, I guess, I mean,

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: Or not happening at all. You probably will end up with an extension. You will end up with a renovation. But the two things that really suffer is time because you are kind of working outside of their systems. Things just take longer and people lose momentum and there’s confusion and that means that projects can be drawn out for much longer than they need to be. Um, but also you might just not get the thing that you want. So I guess with the finance thing. It might not be cost effective anymore once you’ve added all these things in, or you might not, you know, achieve the look or the vision that you are after because it just hasn’t been executed that well. So, for example, if you had a fancy roof light, or you’ve spent money trying to upgrade a certain aspect, might be there, but it may not be delivered in the way that you had hoped.

So I think really that’s the worry, isn’t it? That it doesn’t come through in the, in the way that you have imagined.

I mean,

I guess what comes to mind is Gemma, who was in episode 38, who’s an interior designer and the kind of method that she used with her own property, is a really good example because, it was bespoke. And you know, design led in inverted commas in the fact that she had really looked at the design holistically, and it was very important where roof flights were or how things worked together. But she’d actually used very kind of affordable materials and she’d done it in a way that was kind of simple to construct. And there are architects that do work like that and interior designers that do work like that. So. Again, it’s in the same way that you’d be looking for a contractor who’s open to working in a slightly different way when you’re talking to the architects, being really upfront, like Amy said about saying, you know, we’re gonna be running this onsite with the contractor, so we need you to design it in a way that’s gonna be easy to, to do that, but also to use standardized, suppliers and materials that your contractor is gonna be confident to work with. Without an architect there to tell, you know, they’re gonna know how to fit a velux roof light, but, the advantage of having the architect there at the beginning to kind of set out the designs is means where that roof light is and how big it is and

that’s where you get your kind of bespoke from. But it’s actually easy for your contractor to deliver on site. And that is definitely the, an upfront conversation to have. And you know, it’s about talking about your budget as well and just being really. Somebody working with someone who’s willing to be open and honest with how to progress with your budget and really work to facilitate that. So you know, they’re a little bit golder, aren’t they?

Architects that architects that work in their way, in that way. But I think they’re getting, think there’s more and more people that can deliver that type of project. Do you agree?

Amy: Yeah, I do. I guess there’s also, um, the option of if you have got that niggle that you think, ooh, maybe, the potential of the house could be unlocked just with one kind of big move, you know, and, You don’t want to just stick a box on the back. I think in that scenario, if you are on a tight budget, it’s really worth going to talk to an architect and actually getting that initial layout, that kind of, holistic design for your property and then going to the design and build company or, you know, I, I think getting that input early on can really help you just in terms of almost the intangibles. Often I think people tend to put rather large extensions on the back, and actually it’s more about reworking the existing space and making that really work.

So I think getting that design and getting a good plan, I just think whatever option you’re going for, actually, I just think it’s so worth it.

Jane: It’s important to say that although everybody does design, some architects are more specialized in really working with you in that kind of holistic way. Talking to you about your requirements for your home, really working hard to put a brief together and make a layout that is perhaps not the most obvious. and maybe their, their fees for taking the project all the way through would be out of your budget. But like you said, if you can capitalize on that first kind of feasibility concept, designs, layouts. Use, you know, their services to really focus on that aspect, then that’s really good value for money. But it does, not every architect is as skilled or willing to do that. So it is, it will require a bit of investigation work to find the right person.

Amy: Well, the people that come to mind straight away are the two architects if people wanna look that up. And also I feel like Fraher and Findlay do a kind of consultation type service. And I just think that input is really valuable. And you’ll kind of see the dividends of that. But I think interestingly, having an architect onboard even later on, it’s those, I was just thinking about spotlights. Because I think when you’re on on site and your contractor turns to you and says, how many spotlights do you want in the kitchen? And you’re like, oh gosh, maybe you think six, six seems a bit small, so you end up going for double, you know, or 10

And then suddenly when you’re in the kitchen every day, you’re like, wow, I’m being blasted by kind of this white light. And I just think things like that are, that’s where the intangibles lie. um, it’s not actually really tangible, isn’t it? I dunno why I’m saying that.

Jane: It’s, but you, it is intangible because it’s something you wouldn’t foresee until you’ve actually got to the project.

Amy: yes.

Jane: It is important and it comes in through every aspect of your project.

I think that leads nicely onto the other end of the scale. Like if you are going for the efficient, you know, you’ve got your permissions architect, you’ve got your plans drawn up to building regs and your architect’s a bit more distant and they’re, you know, they’re doing the drawings for you.

But that’s it. And then you’re gonna be working with your contractor. In that situation, how can you really, how can you add that extra design detail and consideration to the project? If you kind of see yourself as a person kind of bringing together lots of little services, it’s a pick a mix

So your architects on your drawings and, they’re fairly straightforward and they’re not anything too fancy. Or maybe you’ve, maybe you’ve already been to your design led architects, like we’ve said, for the feasibility and then your next architect has drawn it up in detail. You can still go to interior design services, there are online affordable interior designs that can really help you uplift that feel of the space inside. They might be able to kind of,look at your design that you have and say, okay, well if we move this here, then that would work better so you are not messing with the shell. Which your contractor’s gonna deliver in the most efficient way they can, but you’re really adding value in the interior fit out. And that can go as far as, you know, going to suppliers and getting, um, a bathroom supplier to do proper bathroom drawings. So that, that is very well detailed for your contractor to deliver. And it could even go as far as the lighting. Um, if you go for

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: you can get a lighting design now from an online supplier, that really gives some consideration to what is being lit and how, and how much light you should have. And it’s not. It’s not super expensive and you will need to coordinate the design you have from your kitchen designer, the design you have from your bathroom, the design you have from your lighting, you are kind of checking that all of those work together.

And then communicating that to your contractor, but none of it’s out of their comfort zone. It’s the difference between saying there’s a spotlight here or a spotlight there. You’ve not introduced something that’s very hard to deliver or complicated.

Amy: If you are on a budget, you’re gonna have to do a lot of legwork to get the quotes and the prices for the things that are gonna fit your budget. you can’t just go to the first supplier

Well, how long has it taken you?

Jane: Well, it, I, we’ve, we’ve done the IKEA kitchen consultation, so I have that under my belt, and I have the price now, but I’m being the tricky customer because I don’t want just a straightforward IKEA kitchen. I want. It, the budget, but I want it to be a little bit designy, which is exactly what we’re talking about.

So I’m gonna go to the high budget kitchen, which we probably can’t afford to kind of see comparatively how much that’s going to be. And then I’m gonna be picking and choosing between the two. Am I gonna go for a cheaper worktop so I can afford it, or am I gonna upgrade the IKEA kitchen with bespoke doors or you know. I am gonna have to put a lot of work into getting the look that I want for the budget I have. Andthat’s what this role is all about. That is how you achieve it, is with legwork and, and your own time. I mean, I was kind of thinking, well, I don’t wanna look for stuff too quickly.

’cause the prices are gonna.be out of date, but in a way it’s never too early to start having meetings because if you can book in with Ikea, like really early on, for example, least you’ve got that as a benchmark where you, where you stand on that one, then you go, you know, you can start programming them in.

They’re not going to, yes, you’ll have to go back to get the final quote when you’re ready, you know the landscape and you know how much things cost, and so you can

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: and choosing between the different things.

Amy: But also I think it’s interesting kind of going back to your point about using off the shelf products, it’s also limiting the amount of bespoke things you need. So in a kitchen, working on a 600 mil unit kind of grid is gonna really help with keep the costs down. So I, I think, there are ways around keeping the budget down aren’t there, but like you say, it is just, there is effort and there is time. Do you have any other tips for people who are, are trying to get that, that look? I, I guess one, one thing that was just coming to mind for me was our concept of choosing where you spend your money.

So instead of, okay, you really want that window seat, you really want a swanky kitchen, you really want, you know, we all want lots of things, but actually when you strip it down, what’s that one element that is gonna make your heart sing?

Jane: One thing can elevate a project. So let your contractor get on with the majority of it the way that they were going to, if you are on that, if you’ve gone down that route with your contractor and only focus on one or maybe two areas where you’re really gonna put your effort in and make that pop. And, um, I think that would be another tip is if you are. It’s a difference between working with a contractor and maybe upgrading a material or an item that is essentially installed and done in the exact same way that they were going to already. So for example, if you’re having a brick extension, you could upgrade the brick, you know, you could go to the brick merchants and choose a brick that maybe a little bit more expensive. Don’t choose a brick that’s a different size to what they normally work with. Upgrade in a way that they can still work with a thing that, you know, in a normal way that fits with their process.

And another thing is, gutters, you know. Plastic guttering. an architect’s way of dealing with that. Quite often it would be to have a hidden gutter and a, a whole new detail and way of constructing that so that you can’t see it. That would be, that would require coordination. But what if you upgrade your gutters from plastic to aluminum, that changes the whole kind of look and feel of your project whilst, you know you’ve added a little extra, but you’re not changing the way that that thing is going to be done. And so it’s an easy substitution to make. And maybe those are things that you could talk to your contractor about how to. Upgrade certain elements without completely changing the way that they’re going to do something.

Amy: Yeah, absolutely.

Jane: So I guess ultimately what we’re saying is. Be aware of which route you’re going down and make sure that the people that you’re hiring are comfortable with the fact that you what they’re offering, but you want to kind of put a little bit of your own work into making that work for you. and then the next point is to. Acknowledge that that’s gonna take time and effort from you. And that not only is that, you know, on your head to, to make that work, but you’re gonna have to put more time into the project and make sure you put time aside on the lead up, you know as much on the lead up as possible to doing your homework and working out what it is that you want to change or alter

Amy: Not, not to plug to it, it kind of leads really nicely onto the app. Okay. Um, but I think that is kind of why we made the app as well, because you can start really early doors to kind of iron out those things. And what I really love about it is that you don’t lose the research or the work that you’ve put in.

So I, I dunno, maybe this is just me, but you, you have moments where you can deep dive. You might spend a couple of hours going into a certain thing, but then you can kind of upload those pro products. You can see it in real time, and then you probably won’t come back to it for another three weeks.

And then when you are, when you do come back, it’s there. All of the links are still in to those products. And you can be like, okay, right. Oh, I’m gonna go, go dive into the world of tiles and, you know, have a nice time in, in the world of tiles. But what’s nice is that you’re just plugging away and kind of building the picture.

And then when you are ready to go on site, you can just order all the things that you already know are in, in budget. And it, it was designed to help people in the middle, this middle bracket.

Jane: I think just seeing it now, like I’ve said with the IKEA quote, I’ve got that on there now. If you asked me how much

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: right now, I, I can’t remember, but it is, it’s on there, but it’s also like, now I’m getting the quote for the doors and what’s, what’s good about it is that I’m manually going through and I’m making sure that the quotes kind of match up so I can turn things on and off. So I’ve put the doors in separately so I can see the difference of if, if go with the IKEA doors.

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: gonna impact my budget? If I wanna upgrade the doors to, you know, Plykea or someone else, then I can, I can do that. If I want to go for a totally different kitchen from a more expensive supplier, I can do that.

I can list the install costs separately so it’s not just about getting the prices, it’s about breaking those prices down. And seeing how they’re different and playing around with the different combinations of what you’re gonna get. Because sometimes you think one way is gonna be cheaper, but actually when you look at the install costs it, it pushes it

Amy: Yeah,

Jane: budget.

So it’s play, it’s the ability to kind of play around and turn things on and off, and that’s what I’m doing right now.

Amy: but also in relation to everything else. ’cause I think it is really easy to kind of get really stuck into the kitchen and be, You know, bottoming that out But then to be able to see that in relation to your bathroom, to, you know, the flooring throughout the ground floor, I think obviously you can work all of that stuff out, on a piece of paper or you know, in Excel or something.

But I think it’s, it’s how they all work together that’s also really powerful.

Jane: Yeah. And it’s about finding those special moments because It is about budget, isn’t it? So

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: kind of, you may have looked at three or four different areas where you want to do something special, but then you can play them off against each other.

Like what’s more important? The kitchen or the

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: expensive roof flights that I’ve chosen. So it’s about being holistic in putting all those prices in Well, I remember you saying that you really wanted after Kailas’s episode that you really wanted the copper light switches. Well,

the price difference when you’re looking at one switch doesn’t seem that much, but you know, we’re lucky that we’ve moved into a bigger place than our old house, but that means that there are quite, there are a few like switches and when you, when you put in the actual number. That small difference for one light switch it really adds up. And I

Amy: quantities of things is something that you sometimes forget when you are selecting items is you’re like, oh, well that’s, it’s not so different. Okay, so it’s five pounds extra per light switch, or even 20 pounds. I think the Kailas ones 20 pounds extra, a light switch. And once you see it in the context of the whole project and how many you’re gonna need, and. It does make a, it, it, it changes your decision making process. And for me, that that wasn’t, that’s not gonna be the place where I, I want to in, I wanna have my

Yeah,

Jane: So

Amy: suddenly like, I’m not bothered, actually.

Jane: when you version with that, with the IKEA doors, you know, but it, that it is decision making and it’s really hard to

Amy: Yeah.

Jane: you have a structure for it. So I

Amy: Yes.

Jane: what we wanted to give people and, you know, and that’s what I am trying to, you know, do myself. So, yeah.

Amy: Amazing. We’ll leave it there for today, but stay tuned for next week’s home truths.

Jane: If you are renovating or if you are thinking about it or you’re right in the middle, um, we’d love to know what camp you are in. So come and find us on Instagram

Jane: See you next week everybody