Amy D: Welcome to our special mini series called Home Truths. We’re gonna be talking about some common misconceptions in the world of renovating, bust some budget myths, and basically shine the light on how to avoid a stressful renovation. If you’re thinking about renovating or about to start, or you’re right in the middle of it, this is for you.

Welcome back to Home Truths. Today we’re gonna be talking about something that sounds simple, but it’s usually anything but: Preparing for the build. You’ve chosen your builder, you’ve signed a contract. Everyone’s excited, but what actually needs to happen before the first hammer swings? Jane, I guess

this the bit that you are actually at, at the moment with your own renovation. How are you feeling?

Jane: Slightly pressured. It’s quite a stressful moment I guess ’cause you are really trying to make sure that all of the, everyone’s clear and all the information’s complete. Because the stress doesn’t always start when the builder starts. It starts because the preparation wasn’t there in the first place.

And I guess the more complex your renovation, the more the preparation actually matters.

Amy D: And what are we talking about? Like what kind of things in terms of preparation.

Jane: Yes. A few different things. So what we’re gonna be talking about today is what drawings and specifications builders actually need. What decisions must be made before work starts. The logistics that most people forget, neighbors and party walls. And the lead times that quietly derail programs.

Amy D: Yeah. Should we start with drawings? ‘Cause I think. People often think, oh, I’ve got planning approval. We’re all good, but that isn’t quite enough, is it?

Jane: So planning drawings show intent, and they often include an extra layer, which is the building control compliance. So, there might be a little bit of extra information on your planning drawings that show that your stairs comply or that you know, they might give a little bit of extra information in the specification on the drawings.

Sometimes there’s some writing down the side which says how they’re gonna meet the building regs but they don’t actually show the detail of how something’s going to be built. So, to actually build something a contractor needs coordinated construction drawings, which is basically going that next level into the detail and saying, what are the actual materials that we’re gonna be using?

You know, how do they fit together? What are the junctions like quite often where a roof meets the side of a wall is something that hasn’t been worked out yet, and that’s something that they would need to know what the intention is, and that’s what an architect would normally draw up in, in detailed design,

Amy D: so that extra level of detail where your architect is really gonna be working into exactly how things go together, not just generally what they are, is called detailed design and it’s the stage of works that happens after the planning permission. And that’s really helpful so that your contractor knows exactly how something is intended to be built.

Jane: And I guess it’s worth saying that without that level of clarity, what happens is pe like the builder is forced to make assumptions, right? And, and often those assumptions might be where you might see a cost increase or extra prices. Would you say that kind of. I guess not vague drawings equal vague pricing, but Well, yeah.

Amy D: builder’s need that clarity?

Right?

Jane: I think it goes back to this idea about whether you are buying your contractors design, you know, do they do a certain type of extension and you just want them to do the same kind of details that they always do? And trust them to do the design work on site and work it out for themselves.

And if so, you are putting all your trust into them and things might come upon site that they hadn’t foreseen or you know, things that they need to work out because they haven’t been worked out in that drawing phase. So that’s the bit that kind of evolves on site if you like, and might lead to extra costs or, outcomes that you perhaps hadn’t considered.

You know, maybe there’s a pipe where you hadn’t thought or something like that. But if you are looking for a contractor who’s, you’ve got a vision in your mind of the type of project you’d like to create, you are, you are wanting your contractor fulfill that. They won’t be able to do that unless you’ve actually drawn out and told them and given them this instruction pack of exactly how you want that to happen.

And that’s when you would need an architect to draw up these details for you. And also, if your contractor isn’t the type of contractor that always produces the same type of thing, again, they won’t know what want them to build for you. So they’re gonna need some steer on that.

Amy D: I guess there’s a few terms that people might come across. So like, schedule of works or scope of works, do you wanna explain a little bit about what they are? Because I think that kind of ties in with this.

Jane: So that’s another piece of, you know, documentation that you would want for your contractor. So a scope of works is essentially a list of all the jobs that need doing for the project. So that could be anything like, you know, upgrading your electrics, installing new flooring. When you have those planning drawings, they don’t really say any of that.

They’re a drawing of a building, and your contractor is gonna be making assumptions about what is included and what isn’t. And quite often your requirements as a client, they go further than just the extension. So maybe you do want your bathroom refitting or you would like new flooring that goes into the kitchen, but also into the dining room next door, and they’re the things that would be quantified in a scope of works.

It’s basically your shopping list for what you’re going to get. But then there’s a variation on that, which would be a, a schedule of works or specification, which is as well as saying what you want doing. It’s telling your contractor how you want that to be done and what materials that you want to use for those things.

So it’s an even more detailed version that gives that extra bit of detail and clarification about how you want things to be done.

Amy D: So what other drawings do people need?

Jane: Yeah. So one absolute non-negotiable is your structural engineer’s drawings and calculations. So if you’re making any structural alterations or you’re building something new with foundations or other structural elements, you will need a structural engineer to specify what that needs to be and do the correct calculations so that they can prove what you’re building is suitable for building regs control.

And that’s a little package that they do, and they will coordinate with your contractor or your architect to get that organized. If you are doing a design that is very specific in terms of, you know, where the structure will go or how that might be designed. Your architects and your structural engineer will need to collaborate on that.

So they will say, we need this structure. And the architect will say, oh, you know, that’s kind of in the wrong place because we’ve got this, can we move it here or can we change this slightly? So it is a bit of a collaborative process, or it can be, and then they will produce their final set of drawings that are ready for site as well.

Amy D: So it feels like it’s quite, um. I think this stage could be summed up as being quite decision heavy.

Jane: Mm.

Amy D: there’s a lot and they come quite close together and, but I think so often people don’t know what needs to be decided now versus can be done on site or with their builder.

Jane: Yeah, Before starting the build, you should ideally have your windows and doors chosen. Your heating strategy decided, you know, are you going for underflow heating or you’re having radiators, or a combination. Are you upgrading your boiler to an air source heat pump?

They’re definitely things that will need to be agreed before. Things like your kitchen layout. Where is your sink going? What appliances are you having that really affects, you know, the services that are gonna have to be put in for that. Again, the same with your bathroom layouts. You need to have the locations of items fixed.

Again, your flooring types, flooring is one that feels like it’s quite a late thing to be done, but how does that flooring is installed, whether that’s, you know, a concrete floor or tiles or a wooden floor really affects the buildup of what goes underneath it. So you really need to make that decision early.

So that those things can be worked out. And finally, the electrical layout. Where are you having lights? What needs to be upgraded? Where are your plug sockets? Because again, your contract is pricing on the amount of electrical work you’re doing. Are you having smart electric? So you’re going for a totally different system.

Again, that changes the works that need to be done. So all of those things, they really affect things that happen earlier in the process. So things like structural openings, your services routes, your floor buildups as I’ve just said, and maybe your wall depths and you know, that first fix electrics where the wirings going to go.

So although they seem later, you need to, those knock on effects happen earlier.

Amy D: Yeah, it’s worth saying that if you are working with an architect, they will be guiding you on what needs to be decided and, and, and those things. If you have kind of opted to work with your builder directly without a professional or an architect, what can people expect?

Because I guess the builder doesn’t typically say, okay, these are the things that need to be kind of worked out. Now it, it becomes a bit more ad hoc, doesn’t it?

Jane: Yeah. I think it’s mostly done verbally. So if you, if you aren’t preparing that information ahead of time then it will be conversations on site, you know or conversations beforehand saying, you know, maybe it’s in the scope of works or the kind of cost that they’ve put together. Maybe they’re said, oh, you’re having under full heating, and they’ve put a cost in for the people they normally use.

Or they’re making assumptions about your electrical upgrade, for example, and perhaps they’ve budgeted for four sockets a room and two light fittings or something like that. So quite often they make kind of assumptions based on just generally what people have. And then as you kind of speak to them,the detail of the decision comes out.

I guess the only, the only trouble with that is if you want something different it might be too late to do that. So you, you’ll be taking the risk that you might not actually get the thing that you want because your contractor hasn’t foreseen that as part of the project. I guess the other thing is that quite often that’s where some delays can come in because maybe you wanted something and you haven’t had the conversation until they’ve got to that point, and then it’s too late to order.

So you either forego or, or you start delaying the site.

Amy D: Yeah,I think is often quite shocking to homeowners, just how long if you are doing this process with an architect, just how long this process takes.

Jane: Yeah.

Amy D: can be kind of two to three months, right? And I think often you get planning and you just think, oh, yay. Like, off we go.

Jane: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Amy D: And the other option is when you don’t have somebody who’s kind of guiding you through that, you are almost waiting for someone to say, okay, now you can look for kitchens. Now you can decide all that stuff. And sometimes I think often people don’t start doing that research ’cause they think they’ve got lots of time

Jane: Yep.

Amy D: you’re on site and your builder is saying, the kitchen’s going in next week or something.

Jane: I mean, that’s

Amy D: quite

Jane: classic one. Yeah.

Amy D: Yeah, but they’re quiteThey’re quite different experiences, aren’t they?

Jane: Yeah. I think

If you have strong opinions about any of those things, then you need to be, you know, I would say even once your planning’s gone in, that’s the time to start working out your heating, working out your kitchen, choosing doors and windows because. Those, if you imagine each one of those things is at least a couple of visits to a supplier.

So you don’t, you probably won’t go to just one window supplier. You might have a look around, get quotes. Same with kitchens and bathrooms. Going to the flooring, choosing, did you want wooden flooring or are you gonna have tiles? There’s a lot of legwork in that and looking around. You can, you can do a lot online.

That’s a lot of evenings, but sometimes you do actually need to just go there and, you know, get the kitchen layout drawn up with the kitchen supplier, for example. So if you imagine nonstop action, I think the quickest I’ve seen it done with a client where we’ve kind of paced things out every single week was six weeks.

A very intense. Visits to showrooms and, and selecting things. So I think once you’ve added in the coordination, that then needs to happen with all that information that goes back into the drawings to kind of make sure there’s no, you know, conflicts between different elements and make sure everything works together.

You can really see that it’s, you know, two, two to three months to get all that agreed.

Amy D: Mm. Yeah. So if it, if you are waiting for someone to give you the permission to go and do all that research, we’re, we are giving it to you now. If you’re listening

Jane: Yes, definitely. Even if you just could, if you, if you don’t feel convinced, give it a first pass. Just go to the kitchen place and say, you know what? This isn’t our final design, but I’m gonna get a design under our belt. I’m gonna get one bathroom design under our belt. I’m gonna, go to the electric store, see what lighting we’re gonna have, you know, if you can just.

If you’re struggling to think that it’s too early, just treat it as the first step and that you are gonna, once you have that information, it’s so much easier when you come back to be like, okay, we had that design done. Is it what we want now? And then you can decide to press go or send it to another supplier and you’ve done that early legwork.

So in that sense, you know, just I would get going straight away.

Amy D: Yeah, that’s such good advice. Because I think deciding, oh yeah, we want timber flooring versus tiled flooring. In some ways you can get quite far, quite quickly and think, oh, well, we know what we want. But actually when you come to choose that timber floor, there’s so many options. it is kind of the difference between final decisions and like,

Jane: Placeholders.

Amy D: Yeah, placeholders. Exactly.

Jane: Which I guess

Amy D: is a plug for our app, right? Because that’s the whole purpose and why we built it is for people to be able to like have somewhere to store all those products and the thought process behind it so that you can kind of swap it in and out. You can see how it works with your budget.

You can kind of. I dunno, I think before we, we built it for ourselves, we would have lots of different places where we were saving things and you would be like, oh, what’s that place? I would spend so much time going back through our messages going like, oh, where was that tap person?

You know, like, that

Jane: Yeah.

Amy D: had used last time. And so it, it’s kind of yeah, it’s a good place to accompany you through that journey. And like you say, start early, refine. But you’re not actually losing any of that early kind of, well, rabbit hole dives.

Jane: Yeah.

Also, ’cause it’s not just, the decision isn’t just about what you want, it’s about what you can afford as well. And I think we can kind of kid ourselves for quite a long time into the process you know, we started out with, stonework tops, like these beautiful tiles that I’ve always wanted to use on the floor, you know?

In my mind, I had made all the decisions about the type of look and feel that I wanted. And so I was just thinking, yeah, I’m ready to go on that. And then when we actually started going and getting the quotes for things, I was like, oh, we’re downgrading, right? So I need to, I need to rethink that. And that for me, that involved like going back to Pinterest even and re-saving my boards and deciding like, oh, we’re going for a slightly different look and feel now, it’s more plywood, it’s more formica tops, you know? And I can make that work, but I, I, I kind of need the time to re envisage the project in a way. So I think that’s the other thing about the app is that

it’s fine going to a kitchen supplier and, and seeing that a kitchen is a certain price, but you’ve got to put that into the budget to see holistically where you’re at with your whole budget. Because

Amy D: Yes.

Jane: I wanted tiles for the whole of the ground floor. And once I put that in, I was like, Ooh, that’s.

You know, we’ve got a bungalow, you know the ground floor is quite a big area, you know, it’s not your typical layout. So, we couldn’t afford to do tiles for the whole floor. So now we’re switching it up and I think. If you can, you know, making those switches and moves are fine if you have time to come up with a plan B, but if you are doing that last minute and you’ve only got a couple of weeks, that’s when the pressure just gets overwhelming because, one, you might not get what you want, and two, you haven’t got time to make plan B good, if you know what I mean.

Amy D: Yeah, you are, you are so, so, right. ’cause I think we often say to people, we recommend kind of do in the one that they really, really wanna go for. Then the one that they actually would be fine to swap in. And then there’s kind of a third option, which is like, okay, if we

Jane: I really.

Amy D: that, like this is, this is where we’re at.

So, I think just having that under your belt feels so good to go into a project. Knowing you can kind of gear up or gear down is, is quite helpful.

Jane: Yeah.

Amy D: Guess what I wanted to talk about now is kind of just like, maybe slightly unglamorous, but just logistics and what things do people need to think about that doesn’t get discussed or thought about before it’s too late.

Jane: Yeah, it’s it’s a big thing, logistics. So there’s some key questions you can be asking yourself. Where will materials be stored? So obviously when you’re doing works, things will have to come to site before they get installed, so. Is there a place that’s suitable for things to go? Do you need a skip?

Where is that going to go? Can it go on a drive? Is it gonna be on the road? If it’s on the road? Do you need permits? Are you allowed to put skip on your road? And is there space? Do you need scaffolding? That’s something that very often gets left out of prices. Mainly because it comes, you know, that your contractor will be getting a price from it, from somebody else.

And how long will you need it for? I think maybe also, that’s why it gets left out, because it’s hard to put, you know, if the contractor hasn’t agreed a timeframe, then the price will change, you know, depending on how long it’s up.

Amy D: Yep. And also whether you are gonna need to get access for your neighbors and stuff,

Jane: yes.

Amy D: that often it’s a less or bit more complicated than you might at first imagine.

Jane: Mm-hmm.

Amy D: so it’s worth talking to your builder about that. Yep.

Jane: Is there controlled parking on your street? Will your contractor’s van, will they need parking permits? This is something that came up in London a lot because it can be really expensive actually, the price for that and your contractor is gonna expect you to pay so. Has that been factored in? So all those little small things they do add up.

And they can come as a price shock if they haven’t been thought about upfront. And then there’s kind of the day-to-day workings of site. Does your contractor need a toilet? Are they gonna need a portal loo? Where is that gonna go? Are they using your electricity? Are you staying on site during the works, which is a massive one obviously.

Sometimes you, you might have just assumed that your contractor knows you’ll be there

Amy D: Mm.

Jane: and that might be a shock for them, that actually they’re gonna have to work around you and your stuff and maybe there’s a cost in kind of adjusting the house to make it suitable for you to live there while, there’s a building site going on.

All of those things are good conversations to work out and think about. If not before, then, you know, when you’ve got your contractor’s attention in those very first site meetings, the welfare things are things you need to be sorting out.

Amy D: Yeah, absolutely. I think another one kind of shifting our focus a tiny bit, but we should talk about neighbors. I guess neighbors can really kind of make or break your stress levels on a renovation. Do you wanna talk a little bit about kind of party walls and what people might need to do?

Jane: Yes. I mean, party walls is a really important thing not to forget because there are timescales in that. And a party wall award or party wall permission is needed where you are doing works that will affect your neighbors. And quite often people think of it in terms of whether they share a party wall.

But there, if you look at the act and you can look this up yourself, like what works will trigger that. Even if you’re building within a few meters of the boundary or within a certain distance of your neighbor’s property, then you will need a party wall award as well. So it’s, it’s worth just having a check whether your works affects your neighbors in that way.

If it does, there’s certain timescales that you need to meet in terms of notifying them about the works and getting them to agree. And if they don’t agree immediately, then you’ll need to hire party war surveyors and it’s a whole process of its own. And it can be, you know, it can be frustrating because it’s extra money that’s going out, especially if they want a surveyor to oversee their, you know, interests as well as your own. But I think it’s definitely the best way about it is to go there early, speak to your neighbors in good time, and kind of plan that out. I think it’s even worth going over to speak about the, about the party walls, if you’re gonna go to speak to your neighbors about planning permissions.

Talk to them about the party walls at the same time.

What’s really frustrating is that as soon as your planning permission goes online, then party wall companies can contact your neighbors and send them quite scary letters about the fact that they need, somebody to represent them and they can sound very scary because they obviously want to be, you know, employed by your neighbor.

So I would start that conversation before they even get those letters because I think sometimes they can scare people unnecessarily. And if you can talk through it and talk through what it is before they get them, I think that’s even better.

Amy D: Yeah, and guess we would recommend kind of erring on the over communication side than under communicating, as in I think surprise really breeds complaints. And you just wanna, like you say, go in early and try to get a feel for what might be the pain points for your neighbors and just like really try and take that on board early on.

Jane: Yeah, I think we’ve had a couple of funny ones, haven’t we? On projects in the past. There was one neighbor who was really upset about the dust on his car, and do you remember that? And I think we solved that by. Paying for car washing or something very simple. It’s like seven pounds to, you know, put his car in the car wash.

But you know, small little things like that can make a massive difference to the people around you, because obviously it is frustrating, you know, having. You know, vans and builders work in dust and noise. And maybe your neighbors aren’t bothered, but if you can just find the thing that’s really frustrating them and kind of help them with that before it escalates, then I would say that’s, that’s job done really.

Amy D: Yep. Another thing that we wanted to talk about today was kind of the lead times that take people by surprise. Which one would you say kind of catches people out?

Jane: Long lead times can really catch people out, especially because again, as we’ve spoken about, if you want particular things that you’ve selected, those items can often have longer lead times than perhaps the suppliers that your contractor usually works with. Contractors quite often have connections where they can get things like radiators.

Windows, you know, lots of things on quite short lead times. Whereas when we’ve specified things as architects, especially, you know, windows and doors can be, eight to 12 weeks to go from actually placing the order to arriving on site. I would say windows and doors are probably the biggest delayer in projects, especially as sometimes you need the openings, the right size before you can place the order.

So I think if that is your lead time for the windows or doors that you want, then it’s definitely worth talking about that with your contractor and seeing how you can fit that in as best you can to the timeframes that you have.

Amy D: Yeah.

Jane: Kitchens obviously have lead times. You need to be planning in advance, like when that’s going to be delivered to site. Also things like MVHR systems, which is air circulation systems for the heating or air source heat pumps. If you’re going to be looking at something like that, they again need future plan, you know planning in a plans and you’ll need to book in a, you know, a date that they can come and install those.

And that needs to be coordinated with, with your works.

Amy D: Yeah, I guess there’s some things that have a lead time, but that don’t impact the builders program because they can actually move their team or they can work with things.

There is a, a certain amount of flexibility isn’t there with the build team, but I think there are some things that obviously just especially about getting your, your building kind of watertight or those fundamental stages of the build. I guess that’s where it can really impact your program actually.

And so those are the ones that you really wanna kind of zone in on. So it is worth talking to your builder about the ones that are really gonna stop or delay your program.

Jane: Yeah, and I think knowing that for yourself, like. We had some

Amy D: Mm-hmm.

Jane: triangle shaped windows in our project that needed to be measured on site. But when we worked through, like what had to be in place to get to the point where we could measure them, we just realized if we’re placing the order that far into site we need, you know, scaffolding to fit them.

It all just suddenly became out of our reach. And, and

Amy D: Yeah.

Jane: it’s often, it’s not just, if you want site to go smoothly, you kind of have to be thinking in that method of what’s gonna happen and what’s gonna have an impact on, on other things. And if you can’t really afford to have a delay, you know, for example, we can’t afford to keep the scaffold up for that long.

We’ve had to make a change and we’ve just had to pull those things out. And that was a bit of a, that was quite a sticking point for me because I had quite a vision in my head about it. But it’s just about being practical and sometimes you don’t realize things are gonna be tricky until you schedule your program out.

And so being willing to make changes or ask if there are alternative methods that you can do around delays like that.

Amy D: Yeah, but I guess where that’s kind of where the app came in again, because it’s like you can, you can map out the cost of that.

Jane: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Well, the difference between a 20 week scaffold and a 10 week

Amy D: Oh

Jane: scaffold was in the thousands, high thousands. So that really put everything into focus, how much I really wanted that window.

Amy D: But I mean,

because you are looking at the whole project and not just like this thing in isolation,

I think it enabled you to have a perspective that I, I kind of thought you would be more upset and you were like, no, this is what we need to do to get the kind of whole of it done.

Jane: Yeah,

I think there’s something quite satisfying about having the insight and the visibility to make those decisions. I think actually I felt quite empowered that it’s like, right, you know, our build is over budget, what can we do? And we’ve managed to do something to bring the price down. So for me, that felt positive and negative, you know,

Amy D: Yes.

Jane: As an architect, sometimes it’s scary, like you’ve made a vision, you’ve all gone through with it. You didn’t realize something is perhaps gonna be more expensive. There is a process always on a project before sites, which is once you’ve got your cost back, how can we value engineer this?

Is there anything on here or anything here that, we need to rethink? And that is a tricky moment because there’s a lot of pressure placed on your architect to know everything and potentially they don’t realize that something has an effect. That means that it will be more expensive and it’s quite nice to sit down all together and just say like, let’s get our heads on this.

What can we do to make this more streamlined or bring the price down. And as a client, just be really proactive and open to just like, look, let’s think creatively about this. And if you go to your designer with that in mind, it takes the pressure off of kind of. This feeling like you’ve sold somebody a concept or a vision.

Things always need to be revised and I, I think that that’s a valid part of the process.

Amy D: But I think it’s also interesting that you did that with your builder.

Jane: Mm.

Amy D: I think they were part of the conversation. So I think that is sometimes I do think that the way traditional renovations work, the builder comes on quite late actually they have such valuable insight, which, if you can bring into the design like means that everyone is in a better place.

But I think often the way it works at the moment, it just doesn’t lend itself to collaborative working, I guess.

Jane: Yeah. If you can bring your contractor in on the that kind of value engineering. If you can all have your heads on it, then that’s dynamite, isn’t it? Because your architect knows what’s possible in terms of what you’re trying to achieve design wise. Your contractor knows, you know, the things that are gonna happen on site that might add to costs, like that scaffolding thing.

So if you can, if you can get everybody together to just think about it, then that’s a great thing.

Amy D: value Engineering happens quite a lot with builders if you don’t have a professional

Jane: They’ll do it for you.

Amy D: they’re just like, you know, expensive. like it, it does happen naturally, doesn’t it?

Jane: Yeah. But you might not know about it.

And it’s quite often the things that you don’t see.what’s crazy is that our insulation hasn’t got downgraded. That was the thing that we were both really keen on, but that is the thing that if we just wrote it in a scope and gave it to a contractor without telling them that it was really important to us.

They would go and get a price for that and just be like, oh, this insulation’s like crazy expensive. Like, let’s not use that. So you have to be mindful of, you know, the different things that are important to you and be having those conversations to make sure that those things don’t get value engineered without you realizing.

Amy D: Yeah, coming back to the lead times, we’re saying kind of a good preparation means finalizing those key selections early, confirming order dates,

Jane: Yep.

Amy D: also just like aligning supplier timelines with your program.

Jane: Mm-hmm.

Amy D: any other bits?

I guess just the main thing is just to try and give yourself that bit of time, and I, I don’t wanna say this to kind of panic people because I know that I already feel like I’ve dropped the ball on a few different things, even though I tried. There are still things that are kind of floating out there that need to be sorted out, but anything that you can do, like the more work, the more time that you can do in that.

Jane: Upfront like investigations the fewer surprises, the fewer variations, the fewer rush decisions like, and ultimately less stress. So anything that you can do to, to get that started before site, the better. And I think just having that as a mentality, like we said, it’s not too early, just start, you know, you start bottoming those things out.

They don’t have to be your final decisions, you’re just. You know you’re doing your homework. And if you look at it like that, I think that makes it easier and can also make it quite exciting. Like who doesn’t want to go and look at kitchens? That’s quite a fun thing to do.

Amy D: I know what everyone’s gonna be doing this weekend.

Jane: yeah.

Amy D: Thanks guys for being with us. Next week we’re gonna be talking about what actually happens once you are living on site, so kind of just talking a little bit about communication and culture and conflicts. And if you are preparing for a building and feeling overwhelmed, that’s totally normal. Send us your questions and we’ll tackle them in future episodes. So we are here for you and yeah, looking forward to chatting next week.

Jane: Yeah. Thank you. Bye everyone.